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    talaniman's Avatar
    talaniman Posts: 54,250, Reputation: 10853
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    #121

    May 29, 2020, 06:55 PM
    Mission accomplished in NY maybe, but have you forgotten how big this country is? Lot of those places you fly over will be hotspots eventually, and some are vital to the food chain.
    jlisenbe's Avatar
    jlisenbe Posts: 3,324, Reputation: 154
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    #122

    May 29, 2020, 07:04 PM
    Well, we can't stay shut down forever. Gotta bite the bullet at some point.
    talaniman's Avatar
    talaniman Posts: 54,250, Reputation: 10853
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    #123

    May 29, 2020, 07:14 PM
    SAFE is the key word here, if you want workers, and people spending money like it grows on trees.
    paraclete's Avatar
    paraclete Posts: 2,705, Reputation: 172
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    #124

    May 29, 2020, 07:48 PM
    safe, yes hide in your bed
    tomder55's Avatar
    tomder55 Posts: 1,741, Reputation: 341
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    #125

    May 30, 2020, 01:32 AM
    Mission accomplished in NY maybe, but have you forgotten how big this country is? Lot of those places you fly over will be hotspots eventually, and some are vital to the food chain.
    already said we know much more about how to respond, and Clete is right you can't hide forever wrapped in mylar or sealed in a bubble.



    The virus is not going away any time soon .We will be fortunate if this hangs around for 2 years .We have to do what humans have always done . Adapt ;protect the vulnerable as best we can ;and live our lives .

    Don't even talk about NY . Il duce has had the worse response of any governor in the nation.
    talaniman's Avatar
    talaniman Posts: 54,250, Reputation: 10853
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    #126

    May 30, 2020, 04:59 AM
    The dufus empowered him for sure, I mean what's a governor to do when the prez disappears on you? Who ya gonna call?

    The adaption we have is quarantine and isolate, so I hope the boss understands that when workers call in sick. Not a good time to repeal Obamacare, and have NO replacement. Can I sue the boss for an unsafe workplace? Or call my union rep? Yeah that's what adapting looks like.
    tomder55's Avatar
    tomder55 Posts: 1,741, Reputation: 341
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    #127

    May 30, 2020, 05:15 AM
    My company can't be sued. We take temp upon entering ;wear masks and other ppe all day long ,have hand sanitizing stations throughout the work place , have separation in the work stations where practical ,and scatter breaks so the locker rooms and cafeteria's have room . and we have had our share of C-19 cases .

    You guys are nuts to think that shutting down the country will solve this . When no one is working no one has medical insurance Obamacare or otherwise . Someone has to pay for it .

    This virus is the lib wet dream ,a perfect Cloward -Piven scenario.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clowar...Piven_strategy

    I'm not fooled . Our permanent dependency of the government for our existence is in your grasps.
    jlisenbe's Avatar
    jlisenbe Posts: 3,324, Reputation: 154
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    #128

    May 30, 2020, 05:20 AM
    Someone has to pay for it .
    The magic words.

    The dufus empowered him for sure, I mean what's a governor to do when the prez disappears on you? Who ya gonna call?
    One of these days a liberal dem is going to take responsibility for his/her own actions, and I'm probably going to faint in amazement.
    talaniman's Avatar
    talaniman Posts: 54,250, Reputation: 10853
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    #129

    May 30, 2020, 05:48 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by tomder55 View Post
    My company can't be sued. We take temp upon entering ;wear masks and other ppe all day long ,have hand sanitizing stations throughout the work place , have separation in the work stations where practical ,and scatter breaks so the locker rooms and cafeteria's have room . and we have had our share of C-19 cases .

    You guys are nuts to think that shutting down the country will solve this . When no one is working no one has medical insurance Obamacare or otherwise . Someone has to pay for it .

    This virus is the lib wet dream ,a perfect Cloward -Piven scenario.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clowar...Piven_strategy

    I'm not fooled . Our permanent dependency of the government for our existence is in your grasps.
    Nice spin, if we weren't making it harder to vote, harder to get assistance, harder to get health care, and harder to make a living by working, and harder to pay for goods and services. Those basic things we need regardless of jobs or wages. Yeah I get someone has to pay for it, but that last line is kind of crazy since government is the foundation for the organization of society. Always has been for humans and always will be for better or worse. I understand your dependence on big biz though or is it preference in who governs what?

    Big Biz had some good marketing with the notion of job creators to get special unfettered treatment and control of government or more specifically the flow and circulation of cash, which right or wrong they get the lions share, and the worker split what's left. I get capitalism.

    All our governing laws say those things are the domain of the people through elections in which big biz buys too. Of course you capitalists federalists believe states are better than your country, on their own. I get that too. Tell Cuomo to stop sending NY money to Mississippi.

    He should keep his own money for NY'ers.
    tomder55's Avatar
    tomder55 Posts: 1,741, Reputation: 341
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    #130

    May 30, 2020, 11:12 AM
    il duce should stop complaining . He likes the progressive tax system where high earners pay the most . Just so happens that NY has a lot of high earners . NY state also taxes the beejeezus out of them too,. You would think then that NY should not always be in a position where they are in the red and begging for bailouts .
    As for the Federal transfers ;they are not mostly farm subsidies . They come from Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, unemployment insurance, food stamps, welfare, the maintenance of the national highway system. A lot of your retirees leave those high taxed blue states because they just can't afford to live in them on fixed incomes .
    I would like to propose to il Duce some reforms that could shift the balance of payments . Flatten the taxes make them much less "progressive" . enact reforms in Social Security ;Medicare ,Medicaid , food stamps ;return social services to the states .Down size the Federal Government;reduce the Federal work force . Have states take over national parks or privatize them . Blue states allocate huge swaths of land that can be turned into military bases . Those states that host bases get a lot of transfer money from il Duce's NY .
    I like it . Don't you ?
    tomder55's Avatar
    tomder55 Posts: 1,741, Reputation: 341
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    #131

    May 30, 2020, 01:15 PM
    some perspective . Last year there were 80,000 flu deaths in the US WITH a Vaccine and no shutdown of the world economy.
    talaniman's Avatar
    talaniman Posts: 54,250, Reputation: 10853
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    #132

    May 30, 2020, 02:23 PM
    Elections are coming so we get the chance to vote our conscious, or wallets.

    some perspective . Last year there were 80,000 flu deaths in the US WITH a Vaccine and no shutdown of the world economy.
    Current perspective, already over 100,000 deaths before mid year with everybody stuck at home. If we had ignored it and did the so what, business as usual thing, can we speculate what the death count would be? We are still learning about the long term effects of those that have recovered. I guess if things turn south you are for making people work through it like Mitch wants us to because he only sees one more relief package in our futures. His mind is made up for sure and yours seems to lean right with him.

    Repubs are favoring back to work bonuses though, and I guess we'll see how this goes.

    jlisenbe's Avatar
    jlisenbe Posts: 3,324, Reputation: 154
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    #133

    May 30, 2020, 02:42 PM
    The great shortcoming of liberal politics. "How do we pay for all of this?"
    talaniman's Avatar
    talaniman Posts: 54,250, Reputation: 10853
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    #134

    May 30, 2020, 04:14 PM
    I suppose the same way we pay for tax breaks, bailouts, and deductions, corporate windfalls, of course. Or we sell more bonds to China. We could raise taxes too. Where there is a will there is a way.
    jlisenbe's Avatar
    jlisenbe Posts: 3,324, Reputation: 154
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    #135

    May 30, 2020, 04:50 PM
    So you're OK with having your taxes raised?

    talaniman's Avatar
    talaniman Posts: 54,250, Reputation: 10853
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    #136

    May 30, 2020, 05:11 PM
    Does it matter if I do or not? If the elected government passes a tax hike and I get affected then what can a citizen do? One would hope they leave the seniors alone but you never know.
    paraclete's Avatar
    paraclete Posts: 2,705, Reputation: 172
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    #137

    May 30, 2020, 05:21 PM
    The government much eventually restore equity, that means higher taxes or less spending or both. You should change the name to Utopia Lost becuase it is clear the states are not united
    jlisenbe's Avatar
    jlisenbe Posts: 3,324, Reputation: 154
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    #138

    May 30, 2020, 05:26 PM
    In your earlier response you said, "We could raise taxes." I guess you meant just on everyone else?
    talaniman's Avatar
    talaniman Posts: 54,250, Reputation: 10853
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    #139

    May 30, 2020, 05:45 PM
    No I said we could raise taxes period. Nothing specific. Just an option for paying debts as were the other suggestions.
    paraclete's Avatar
    paraclete Posts: 2,705, Reputation: 172
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    #140

    May 30, 2020, 06:47 PM
    What you don't realise is the bill must be paid somehow, and putting it off until tomorrow and expecting inflation to take care of it isn't the answer, this crisis is just a small taste of what happens when an economy collapses and it can happen in an instant, anytime nature takes a hand, and nature has many weapons in the arsenal, and none can be resisted. You might be able to resist the external enemy, but the enemy within you cannot. We have seen the enemy and he is us

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