[jlisenbe]

Yes, it does. It prohibits the establishment of religion. Period. A national religion would be an established religion. Prohibited.

Pay attention. The dispute was over the term "promotion" of religion, not "establishment". They do not mean the same thing.

Nobody else does.

How could you possibly know that?

We acknowledge the "CREATOR" in the Declaration. Jefferson couldn't have made his deliberate non-use of the Christian God more obvious.

I didn't say he was referring to the Christian God. Pay attention!! The "Creator" is plainly a reference to God.

No they're not. They do not appear in the Constitution so they are not "foundational". They are codes of behavior (moral, if you will) that are found in every civilization ever found on the planet. You are not even using them here as moral - you are using them as political ammo for your purposes - a kind of blasphemy.

There is very little in the Constitution regarding specific crimes. They are referred to frequently in both federal and state codes.

Wow, you sure got it wrong with this one. Jefferson, a man of the 1700s, was acutely aware of the damage a powerful religion could do to a nation. The religious wars in Europe were a part of his intellectual background. He wanted to avoid that at all costs so he made sure religion would have no favored or established place in government.

And yet he clearly attributed both equality and inalienable rights to the existence of a Creator?? Strange, isn't it? No God..no equality. No God..no rights.

For the same reason we have murder as a crime - it's bad for society.

You completely missed the point. If the government should not be about opinions, and hate is an opinion, then crimes should not be categorized by hate.

[Athos]

crimes should not be categorized by hate.

A hate crime is a crime motivated by prejudice against a group.

[jlisenbe]

Which is an opinion. "In my opinion, group X are all nutty." If government is not supposed to be about opinions, then why would we consider a person's prejudices?

[Wondergirl]

I didn't say he was referring to the Christian God. Pay attention!! The "Creator" is plainly a reference to God.

So that means Allah, Yahweh, Brahma, the Great Spirit, Krishna, Ahura Mazda, and Jah also qualify.

[jlisenbe]

Not in American culture. I think it's a very fair statement to say that the Ten Commandments represent the religious tradition of our country. To post them on a school wall is far removed from establishing a national religion. I think our children need to know that some things are wrong, not because an adult says so, but because God says so.

Jefferson and the founders would have laughed at your suggestion.

[Wondergirl]

I think it's a very fair statement to say that the Ten Commandments represent the religious tradition of our country.

No, it doesn't! If the Ten Commandments are to be posted anywhere, it should be in each person's HOME. And not only posted, but discussed frequently by the family as to what they mean.

Your punative verbal meanderings are representative of why young people have left so many Christian churches.

[jlisenbe]

No, it doesn't!

Of the ten, which ones would you say do not.

If the Ten Commandments are to be posted anywhere, it should be in each person's HOME. And not only posted, but discussed frequently by the family as to what they mean.

I would go along with that.

Your punative verbal meanderings are representative of why young people have left so many Christian churches.

I think they have left because far too many of our churches are cold, lifeless, mausoleums with no passion for God. Might add that young people raised on a steady diet of being told how wonderful they are and how they can do anything they want find the restrictions of the truth of the Bible to be distasteful, but when they begin to get a vision of the glory and majesty of Jesus, they will come willingly.

"punative" ??? Did you mean punitive, or perhaps putative?

[Wondergirl]

Of the ten, which ones would you say do not.

Our country is made up of many different non-Christian religions, some even home-grown. The Ten Commandments aren't a commonality or part of the tradition of our country.

I think they have left because far too many of our churches are cold, lifeless, mausoleums with no passion for God. Might add that young people raised on a steady diet of being told how wonderful they are and how they can do anything they want find the restrictions of the truth of the Bible to be distasteful, but when they begin to get a vision of the glory and majesty of Jesus, they will come willingly.

I totally disagree. I have known many people who've left the church. There are myriads of reasons, all reasonable. Unfortunately, too many of the faithful believe the church is a building.

"punative" ??? Did you mean punitive, or perhaps putative?

punitive
[ˈpyo͞onədiv]
ADJECTIVE

• inflicting or intended as punishment.

[paraclete]

So that means Allah, Yahweh, Brahma, the Great Spirit, Krishna, Ahura Mazda, and Jah also qualify.

No, the only God is Yahweh, Yahweh is the author of the ten commandments

[jlisenbe]

Look at the church around the world where growth is taking place. Look at places like China and Africa, or in South America. They don't grow because they are trying to be culturally relevant, or because they have decided that homosexuality and having a live-in girlfriend are now OK. They are growing because they preach a living Christ who is glorious and worthy of our love and devotion.

[jlisenbe]

Our country is made up of many different non-Christian religions, some even home-grown.

The mainstream religious affiliation in the U.S. has historically been Christianity. Islam is a recent addition. Judaism has always been here, but those two are very much minority. The others you mentioned are the religious equivalents of the Green Party.

[talaniman]

Now that's just great, but here ALL are free to observe there own religion regardless of size and popularity or any other manner within the structure of law. Good luck making a law against gay marriages, and living with another person, or even shunning or humiliating people to follow that direction. We may well be a mostly Christian nation, and not all Christians agree with your particular Christian sect.

I acknowledge your freedom to holler about it, just as I am free to disagree. Simple enough concept, which is why the VOTE is the most important thing we do here.

[jlisenbe]

There is already a law against gay marriage and live-ins. It's called God's law. That's the one we should be proclaiming in the churches.

I'd still love to know which one of the Ten Commandments you guys find to be offensive.

[paraclete]

There is already a law against gay marriage and live-ins. It's called God's law. That's the one we should be proclaiming in the churches.

I'd still love to know which one of the Ten Commandments you guys find to be offensive.

it is probably those against coveting and adultery

[talaniman]

I find none of them offensive at all, and that's not even the point. I just feel that religious teaching is in the home, and not in the schools, or as a part of government. I thought that's what churches are for. You never answered the question I asked about if you can post your religious values in a school, why can't any religion do the same?

[jlisenbe]

That's a good question. I don't view it as ME posting MY religious values in our schools. It is more of a nationally recognized moral code. It is very similar to Jefferson stating in the D of I that we have inalienable rights and equality because of a "Creator". We have historically agreed that the values put forward in the Ten Commandments form a moral code that we can teach our children. It can certainly be done without promoting any specific religion.

[Athos]

We have historically agreed that the values put forward in the Ten Commandments form a moral code that we can teach our children.

Who's "We"? You got a mouse in your pocket?

It can certainly be done without promoting any specific religion.

Except for Judaism and its daughter religion, Christianity.

[talaniman]

I can agree since major religions do embrace the 10 commandments as moral law, making it's mainstream acceptance fairly easy, and one could argue principles codified in law, so the secular importance is clearly demonstrated, but does that discriminate or disqualify the smaller religions like Hindis or Sikhs from the same opportunities of moral or religious expression.

It's been my experience that Christian citizens are the loudest voices against Christian symbols, language and customs being in the public schools as it is.

[jlisenbe]

that discriminate or disqualify the smaller religions like Hindis or Sikhs from the same opportunities of moral or religious expression.

Which of the Ten Commandments would they have a major disagreement with?

At any rate, in a recent Texas case, Gallup found this to be true. "76% of Americans say the display should be allowed, compared with 21% who say it should not."


https://news.gallup.com/poll/15817/A...mandments.aspx


And as far as the D of I goes, this is interesting.

The Founding Fathers went out of their way to acknowledge God no less than four times in the Declaration:

• "[T]he Laws of Nature and of Nature's God..."
• "[A]ll Men are created equal. They are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights..."
• "[A]ppealing to the Supreme Judge of the World for the Rectitude of our Intentions...
• "[W]ith a firm Reliance on the Protection of divine Providence..."

Who's "We"? You got a mouse in your pocket?

No, but I do have a brain in my head that I use. Note the poll above.

Except for Judaism and its daughter religion, Christianity.

You left out Islam. Talk about religious prejudice. Good grief. 8D

[Wondergirl]

There is already a law against gay marriage

Which one is that?

Trump had a birthday yesterday. Why no celebration?