[jlisenbe]

Really an irrelevant point, but if makes you happy, the best answer would be the original autographs.

[Wondergirl]

Really an irrelevant point, but if makes you happy, the best answer would be the original autographs.

That's only a very small part of the Bible. Which version is the most reliable?

But then, the most important verses are Matthew 22:36-40.

[jlisenbe]

What is a small part?

[Wondergirl]

What is a small part?

Small, i.e., non-existent part.

The original autographs refer to the original documents that contain the books of the Bible. When Paul, for instance, dictated the letter to the Romans to Tertius and handed it to Phoebe to carry it to Rome, the result was the autograph of the Romans Epistle. All such original writings have perished; nobody knows what has happened to them.

[jlisenbe]

You said something was only a very small part of the Bible. What were you referring to?

[Wondergirl]

You said something was only a very small part of the Bible. What were you referring to?

The autographs, which very probably no longer exist.

[jlisenbe]

The autographs are a small part of the Bible?? What??

[Wondergirl]

The autographs are a small part of the Bible?? What??

Okay, delete "a small part of". Feel better now?

[jlisenbe]

I think you are confused.

[Wondergirl]

I think you are confused.

Do you know the difference between autographs and original texts?

[jlisenbe]

You clearly did not know what an autograph was.

[Wondergirl]

You clearly did not know what an autograph was.

And it is....

[jlisenbe]

The original manuscript penned by the author.

[Wondergirl]

The original manuscript penned by the author.

Good googling.

[jlisenbe]

Remember...I used the term in post 61 in a reply to your question. However, when you said the autographs were "a very small part" of the Bible, a comment which made no sense, then it seemed obvious you had no idea what they were. The autographs WERE the Bible at the time of their writing.

At any rate, there are a number of good translations available. No major doctrine of the Bible is dependent on a particular version for it's existence. I tell the guys at the rehab that a good, word for word translation is desirable for their primary study Bible. The paraphrases are nice as a sort of commentary. Once they complete three months, we give them a good study Bible. They get to choose the version. Top choices right now are the NKJV, CSB, and the NLT. Rather strangely, the NIV does not seem to appeal to them.

I do think your comment about Matthew 22 was a good one. If you combine that with John 14:15, we see that loving God with all our heart, mind, soul and strength leads us to obey His commands willingly.

[Wondergirl]

Remember...I used the term in post 61 in a reply to your question. However, when you said the autographs were "a very small part" of the Bible, a comment which made no sense, then it seemed obvious you had no idea what they were. The autographs WERE the Bible at the time of their writing.

I was in the midst of messaging with a depressed cyberfriend and had only a small part of my brain on AMHD, was thinking of fragment, not autograph. Sorry.

[waltero]

Suggestion: Please keep your comments and answers shorter and on target. Watch your punctuation. You tend to ramble and be very wordy, meanwhile losing your frustrated reader who tries hard to pull out a message for himself. Short, meaty sentences can be very effective.

Noted. Thanks for the advice.  I honestly try to keep it short, but there is just so much in this passage. I tend to get excited (believing I know something) and want to share.

I hope that I was doing okay with my first two posts (Watch your punctuation, my bad)? post 55 was a bit much and not really needed. But I was a bit perplexed and highly frustrated- WG's  Response; couldn't believe she was questioning something that "Jesus said" (Not John)?

'"Truly, truly, I say to you, unless a grain of wheat falls into the earth and dies, it remains alone but if it dies, it bears much fruit. John 12:24 (NASB).

' Not me, not John...Jesus!!!

I write much too fast. Then I usually have to go over, and over and over, everything I've written, again, and then some more and an additional 76 times, editing punctuations. Entering this thread a bit late, having to catch up and read 1,2,3 pages before responding gets exhausting. I spent my time reading most of the posts, I put my time in, I should get at least equal time writing as I did reading.  lol ;-)

After reading the last two pages of this thread (no worries, this will be short), It looks as if everybody is still a bit miffed on why our Man Jesus didn't call in the greeks?

Jesus clearly had death on his mind; His death, the death of Jesus is necessary, but it is costly - verse 27; now is my soul troubled. I sometimes wonder whether we take it seriously enough, whether if we in practice, we default to thinking Jesus is God simpliciter, Jesus is God full stop! We don't take seriously- "and now is my soul is troubled." Now my whole inner being recoils in horror, now I'm thrown into strong turmoil, now I don't know what to feel or think, I'm profoundly agitated. Very striking this man who quietly turned old covenant water into New covenant wine in chapter 2. The Man who healed the dying boy with a word at a distance in chapter 4. The man, with a word, healed a man in the place of old covenant Life by the temples paralyzed for 38 years in chapter 5. The man who took five loaves and two little fish and fed a crowd of thousands in chapter 6, As the new Moses. The man who gave sight to a man born blind, a miracle that nobody did in the Old Testament, and the man who just a few weeks previously stood outside the tomb of a man dead long enough for his body to begin to decompose, and this man says "now is my soul troubled, now my soul is full of horror and revulsion and visceral terror. It's not a man who lacks courage for at least a year since John chapter 5 verse 18- they've been plotting to kill him and he's known that...public death threats from the most powerful men in the land- and this courageous man who continues public ministry in the face of these death threats, credible death threats- now his soul is troubled? What shall I say, he says father save me from that hour, everything in him cries for that. But for this purpose I've come to this hour- Father glorify your name. The death of the Lord Jesus is necessary it is costly.                      

"I've come to this hour"...this was the hour of his death- Sure, send in the Greeks- we'll hang for a bit...I'm good, after all, I'm God...I got this!

If I may...The seed thing; It doesn't matter how big your ministry gets- Lord Jesus implies of his own ministry is; so long as I walk around doing miracles and such that nobody's ever done before, as long as I teach such that no human being has ever taught before, no matter how wonderful my teaching no matter how astonishingly powerful my miracles (power pastor)...I will remain alone. It's not about being in the ministry," it's about your death for the ministry (the only way to produce fruit). it's so easy to get caught up "in" the ministry...nobody wants to continually focus on death (yet we're continually focused on the ministry)? I think Jesus was always thinking about his death. He was always mentioning "My hour has not yet come." Only when the Greeks showed up...then he knew his time was up.

ooop's, I did it again. And I'm not finished, I still have to edit/add...Doh!

[jlisenbe]

I was in the midst of messaging with a depressed cyberfriend and had only a small part of my brain on AMHD, was thinking of fragment, not autograph. Sorry.

It happens. No problem.

[jlisenbe]

He was always mentioning "My hour has not yet come."

As far as I have been able to find, He actually said it just once in John 2:4, and that was not speaking of His death but of the beginning of His time of ministry. Perhaps it was spoken in another place, but I haven't found it if so.

[waltero]

As far as I have been able to find, He actually said it just once in John 2:4, and that was not speaking of His death but of the beginning of His time of ministry.

my earlier post

The sacrifice of the Lord Jesus, on which we focus first is necessary and costly, and fruitful. First, it is necessary- versus 24 to 26 verse 23: "Jesus answered them," and it's a strange answer; We want to see Jesus, and on the face of it the answer that Jesus gives is not an answer at all. It appears to be completely irrelevant to the question. "we want to see Jesus"- "And Jesus answered them;  the hour has come. The hour that had not yet come in chapter 4 of the wedding in Cana, my hour has not yet come. The hour that had not yet come in chapter 7, when they wanted to arrest him.  The hour that had not yet come in chapter 8, as he teaches in the Temple, and now the hour has come for the Son of Man to be glorified to be lifted up like the suffering servant of the Lord.

I think what Jesus was trying to convey here; that it isn't so much about his (including our) ministry...It's about Sacrifice/Death. His death is always the underlining (ministry) story. Picture if you will; Pastor Rickshaw McGraw (Power preacher extraordinaire) has cancer, Unless he gets an operation he will die...how does death look back at him? Why is he going to (most assuredly) go for the Operation? If Jesus would have continued his ministry (at this point) there would have been a shift in his focus, and his death might have been prevented from happening in the manner (death by crucifixion) of the Cross itself. Focus on the Cross, not your ministry. Maybe, applicable to Disciples/Pastors only?