[jlisenbe]

Isn't the resident "grammar expert" rather disgracing herself here? First you quoted someone other than Trump. When that failed, you put a passage in bold text. Well, I put your bold section below, and then put the two words in question in bold. Now surely a bonafide "grammar expert" can see very clearly that Tal's direct quote ("injecting disinfectant") is nowhere to be found in the passage. Honestly, I'm somewhat embarrassed for you.

And I then I see the disinfectant, where it knocks it out in one minute, and is there a way you can do something like that by injection inside, or almost a cleaning. Because you see it gets in the lungs, and it does a tremendous number on the lungs. So it'd be interesting to check that. So you're going to have to use medical doctors, but it sounds interesting to me, so we'll see.

[Wondergirl]

Isn't the resident "grammar expert" rather disgracing herself here? First you quoted someone other than Trump. When that failed, you put a passage in bold text. Well, I put your bold section below, and then put the two words in question in bold. Now surely a bonafide "grammar expert" can see very clearly that Tal's direct quote ("injecting disinfectant") is nowhere to be found in the passage. Honestly, I'm somewhat embarrassed for you.

And I then I see the disinfectant, where it knocks it out in one minute, and is there a way you can do something like that by injection inside, or almost a cleaning. Because you see it gets in the lungs, and it does a tremendous number on the lungs. So it'd be interesting to check that. So you're going to have to use medical doctors, but it sounds interesting to me, so we'll see.

First of all, "injecting disinfectant" is tal's shortening of Trump's rambling and horrific suggestion that a disinfectant can be injected into a human body to cure covid-19. (From tal's post #10 in this thread: "We all agree he should leave the scientific facts to his experts, then maybe we would have to be shocked at his 'injecting disinfectant' comments....")

Be sure to watch Dr. Birx's face while he's babbling on and on about the UV light and the disinfectant as hopeful cures. Today he backtracked and said he was just being sarcastic toward a journalist (*giggle giggle*).

And be sure to read my post #16 and tomder's post #20.

Oh, and there's this:

In a letter, Mark Grenon* told Trump that chlorine dioxide – a powerful bleach used in industrial processes such as textile manufacturing that can have fatal side-effects when drunk – is “a wonderful detox that can kill 99% of the pathogens in the body”. He added that it “can rid the body of Covid-19”.

A few days after Grenon dispatched his letter, Trump went on national TV at his daily coronavirus briefing at the White House on Thursday and promoted the idea that disinfectant could be used as a treatment for the virus. To the astonishment of medical experts, the US president said that disinfectant “knocks it out in a minute. One minute!”

*Dubbed the "archbishop” of Genesis II – a Florida-based outfit that claims to be a church but which in fact is the largest producer and distributor of chlorine dioxide bleach as a “miracle cure” in the US. He brands the chemical as MMS, “miracle mineral solution”, and claims fraudulently that it can cure 99% of all illnesses including cancer, malaria, HIV/Aids as well as autism.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...dApp_News_Feed

[tomder55]

along with dangerous quackery of inserting ultraviolet light or heat into the body to generate a miracle coronavirus cure,

that is not dangerous quackery . The technology is there and was in use in the 1940s and 50s . It was shelved and forgotten . But the treatment exists and is being reintroduced . It is new for this application . I had posted a YouTube that was taken down by the company . But I was able to retrieve a still shot .


It is from a company called Aytu Bioscience in partnership with

Cedars-Sinai- The machine is called

‘Healight’ Medical Device

https://apnews.com/b44f4531071e6204023f7b8e16f59d4b[/

[jlisenbe]

First of all, "injecting disinfectant" is tal's shortening of Trump's rambling and horrific

You know full well what a direct quotation is, and I pointed that out from the outset. It is genuinely sad to see your political inclinations so extreme as to override your professed knowledge of basic grammar. The difference between what a person actually said (direct quotation) versus what you might think they meant is a wide, wide chasm.

Besides all of that, how could you possibly know what Tal's intent was? He never stated that. Check out posts 11, 12, and 13. When I pointed out his use of quotation marks, he simply doubled down and asserted it was true. I'm really astonished to see you continue this insane line of reasoning.

[Wondergirl]

You know full well what a direct quotation is, and I pointed that out from the outset. It is genuinely sad to see your political inclinations so extreme as to override your professed knowledge of basic grammar. The difference between what a person actually said (direct quotation) versus what you might think they meant is a wide, wide chasm.

Besides all of that, how could you possibly know what Tal's intent was? He never stated that.

I repeat --

First of all, "injecting disinfectant" is tal's shortening of Trump's rambling and horrific suggestion that a disinfectant can be injected into a human body to cure covid-19. (From tal's post #10 in this thread: "We all agree he should leave the scientific facts to his experts, then maybe we would have to be shocked at his 'injecting disinfectant' comments....")

Yup, Athos is correct!!!

[jlisenbe]

Yes, but when I pointed out that his use of a quote was wrong, he doubled down and said it was not. If he had simply claimed to be summarizing Trump's comments, then it would have been a different matter. I thought you understood grammar. Perhaps not? It's actually rather shocking to see you pursue this.

BTW, the quote came from Tal, and not from Athos. If he is correct, it is not in this matter.

[talaniman]

Everybody is talking meanings and you are stuck on grammar. Even the brand companies are coming out and disavowing what the dufus said about their products, which have had warning labels since I was a kid and I bet you and your wife schooled your kids about what not to eat and drink no matter how good it looked.

Everybody thinks what the dufus said was BIZARRE, LUNACY, DANGEROUS, AND IDIOTIC, all over the freaking world and you trip off quotations? its like you proclaiming all those ancient scholars said one thing and the ones that disagreed were wrong, so in this case do those rules apply? If they do, that makes you dead wrong.

Geez can we move on to his being happy about just having 60,000 deaths projected (Instead of millions?), and we just crossed the 52,000 threshold? Still a week in April to go!

@Tom, anything to stop the infection from getting to the lungs I'm for. So catching it in time may be the key which means more early testing, and not just this rationing crap. I mean does anybody think this virus will stop at a million? If you don't have enough then you don't have enough, and given the hotspots. I suppose JL will argue that the dufus said we don't need no more tests, because we tests more than anybody in the world already.

Let's vote...is this guy a dufus or NOT?

[paraclete]

Let's vote...is this guy a dufus or NOT?

it is a vote he wins hands down, we all know this, politics doesn't guarantee intelligence

[jlisenbe]

Everybody thinks what the dufus said was BIZARRE, LUNACY, DANGEROUS, AND IDIOTIC, all over the freaking world and you trip off quotations? its like you proclaiming all those ancient scholars said one thing and the ones that disagreed were wrong, so in this case do those rules apply? If they do, that makes you dead wrong.

You made a dumb comment so now it's my fault? I see.

"...all those ancient scholars said one thing and the ones that disagreed were wrong..." What???

[tomder55]

Tom, anything to stop the infection from getting to the lungs I'm for. So catching it in time may be the key which means more early testing, and not just this rationing crap. I mean does anybody think this virus will stop at a million? If you don't have enough then you don't have enough, and given the hotspots. I suppose JL will argue that the dufus said we don't need no more tests, because we tests more than anybody in the world already.

What exactly do you hope to accomplish by early testing ? I did not have it one day and now I do. Had I stuck the alien probe up my nose the day before I was infected I would've tested negative . It is bizarre how this is being treated . It used to be that the sick were quarantined . Now we isolate the healthy. That is an unsustainable model. We already know which segments of the population are vulnerable to serious effects of the virus . They should possibly be singled out for special concern including frequent testing .A single one off test is a waste of resources . The young and healthy should be out there doing their jobs ;living a purpose driven life.
So if you think we need mass testing then it should be within the high risk population .


Now the antibody tests coming out are much more valuable .The virus came to California much sooner than to NY . Antibody tests are yielding some stats that are revealing . Stanford University Medical School tested

3,330 residents of Santa Clara county using blood tests to detect antibodies to determine whether or not they had been exposed to the coronavirus. Their study shows the percent of people infected with the disease who die is "A hundred deaths out of 48,000-81,000 infections corresponds to an infection fatality rate of 0.12-0.2%, That gives us roughly the same death rate as the annual flu.

While our study was limited to Santa Clara County, it demonstrates the feasibility of seroprevalence surveys of population samples now, and in the future, to inform our understanding of this pandemic's progression, project estimates of community vulnerability, and monitor infection fatality rates in different populations over time. It is also an important tool for reducing uncertainty about the state of the epidemic, which may have important public benefits.

https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1...463v1.full.pdf

Surely there would have to be different results in NYC then in Santa Clara . All the more reason for CDC to take Sanford's methods on the road for a nation wide test ;starting in the hardest hit areas .

[ The USS Theodore Roosevelt the infection rate should be higher but the lethality rate will be lower (much younger and healthier than the general population). The Navy tested the sailors and found that 14% (660) of the crew had the disease. There was one death. That is a mortality rate of 0.15%. Note that the infection rate does not include those that were infected and cleared the virus. They are starting to do antibody testing now. Assuming there will be a higher mortality rate from

Diamond Princess cruise line ]

[jlisenbe]

Very good post, Tom. It is quite possible that when this whole thing is over, we will discover that we absolutely panicked and thus made poor decisions. If I read your post correctly, then you now have this virus? If that's the case, then take care of yourself and get well.

I suppose JL will argue that the dufus said we don't need no more tests, because we tests more than anybody in the world already.

You're the one who makes up quotes, so now you think I'll copy you? You can be sure that is not going to happen.

[talaniman]

You made a dumb comment so now it's my fault? I see.

"...all those ancient scholars said one thing and the ones that disagreed were wrong..." What???

Well excuse me for paraphrasing the dufus meandering comments and cutting to the chase. I blast you for semantic and grammar antics and you well deserved it.

The rest of the blast pertaining to ancient man comes from the very obvious fact there were many bibles and from which whomever had the best sway adopted as the official sanctioned version for the masses. Back (As NOW) then religious leaders were like politicians, always trying to keep ahead of the competition for followers and supporters. Indeed the whole history of religion is more domination and power than divinity.

I don't want to get into a religious discussion here, just point out how easy it is to prop up a dufus who clearly has no clue what he is talking about and thankfully the huge blowback to his commentary at this presser has reduced his face time big time for now. That's a good thing.

@TOM

What exactly do you hope to accomplish by early testing ?

For one, who can infect others, and those people can take the appropriate safety actions. One thing that has become painfully obvious, especially in nursing home, and confined close quarter populations, is this virus spreads fast and brought in often unknowingly from the outside. You have no choice I think, but to identify and isolate the healthy people since the virulence is so fast and pronounced. Maybe it's not sustainable, but fact is we just can't know who is healthy and who is not. That suggests regular health monitoring of darn near everybody and that is a huge undertaking considering we just don't have enough tests. Important though we make the most of what we have to learn everything we can so we can at least find a course of action that works.

As you've acknowledge before, those in a high risk group should be more cautious of contacts and those still working essential or soon to be workers are more likely to facilitate more infections than not for sure so the numbers will increase and not decrease. Just because we have few good options doesn't mean we just say screw it and go back to work since we know that even essentials get sick. Cops, nurses doctors, grocery workers, all are having increases.

I think we just have to recognize we are far behind the curb and playing catch up as we learn, and it's likely to be a while before business as usual is not a death defying event. We may have to adjust to a new normal for the foreseeable future. That's just reality as I take note of your numbers. They cannot be accurate without testing to verify the projections.

Personally I would be afraid to go to work and may sue the MF who makes me and I got sick. I cite the Amazon walkouts as a precursor to the concerns of those workers. Pay attention to those food processing plants, but give me masks and gloves and I'll hustle some haircuts. We just cannot predict what comes next Tom, but we better get better prepared to deal with it than we were when it hit.

In that we have NO choice, but to ramp up testing capabilities and capacity, and that requires a strong supply and delivery chain which we have already found to be lacking.

[jlisenbe]

paraphrasing the dufus

You didn't paraphrase and you know you didn't. That was the whole point of my question that you and WG have practically exhausted yourselves denying. But at least you have now corrected yourself and admitted your mistake, so thank goodness for that.

there were many bibles and from which whomever had the best sway adopted as the official sanctioned version for the masses.

There is some truth in that, but not in the way you think. It largely did not happen that way.

[talaniman]

1. It's more like I had to clarify what you missed multiple times, but if your spin makes you feel better then okay, whatever. Just curious as to what your own perception of his comments were, and did it make sense to you?

2. I would much prefer we moved this part of the discussion to the proper place and will copy/paste to a more appropriate thread if that's okay as I am more than interested in your explanation.

[jlisenbe]

It's more like I had to clarify what you missed multiple times,

Tal, you're just being untruthful . Period. End of story. You were very clear with your direct quotation which I asked directly about and you affirmed. Maybe you don't know what that means?? At any rate, don't blame your falsehoods on me.

2. I would much prefer we moved this part of the discussion to the proper place and will copy/paste to a more appropriate thread if that's okay as I am more than interested in your explanation.

OK with me.

[talaniman]

Tal, you're just being untruthful . Period. End of story. You were very clear with your direct quotation which I asked directly about and you affirmed. Maybe you don't know what that means?? At any rate, don't blame your falsehoods on me.

I didn't assign the quotes and maybe it would be grammatically correct to do so, or stipulate I was paraphrasing but no excuse for you not to answer the question posed unless you are intentionally ducking it, or just missed (OMITTED) it as usual.

"Just curious as to what your own perception of his comments were, and did it make sense to you?"

[jlisenbe]

"Just curious as to what your own perception of his comments were, and did it make sense to you?"

I think he was doing what he frequently does which is "thinking out loud." It is extremely unwise. Probably the greatest disappointment I have with Trump is the fact that he has learned very little about how to deal with the public. He does not govern his mouth. Still, to say that he was suggesting that people go out and inject disinfectant into their veins is flatly untrue. But Trump should know by now that his dumb, thoughtless comments allow liberals who are largely unconcerned with being truthful to distort his statements. He is right in much of what he says about fake news, but when your house is one fire, you don't need to throw gasoline on it.

I didn't assign the quotes and maybe it would be grammatically correct to do so

Maybe?

[tomder55]

That suggests regular health monitoring of darn near everybody

so public health will be the pretext for the police state . Maybe those of us who were infected can have a tattoo so the public can know ?

As you've acknowledge before, those in a high risk group should be more cautious of contacts and those still working essential or soon to be workers are more likely to facilitate more infections than not for sure so the numbers will increase and not decrease. Just because we have few good options doesn't mean we just say screw it and go back to work since we know that even essentials get sick. Cops, nurses doctors, grocery workers, all are having increases.

I assure you the work place already is making adaptions . In my plant everyone is scanned with a thermometer before entering . We also follow CDC guidelines , Mercifully they have eased some of the more onereous ones like anyone who was potentially exposed had to self quarantine for 2 weeks with the company picking up the tab. When they ended that requirment and only workers with doctor's notes were permitted to take the time off using their own benefit time ,suddenly we had a lot fewer workers out .The attrition rate was horrible for a time with most of those out never getting sick

I think we just have to recognize we are far behind the curb and playing catch up

completely disagree .The only countries ahead of us initially was the ones in Asia who had gone through covid incidents before .We also fell behind because initial test kits were failures .

Personally I would be afraid to go to work and may sue the MF who makes me and I got sick

I tell my staff they have the option to resign .This is not a dicatorship . I know when this is done there is going to be a big pool of workers looking for the jobs my employer provides .

I cite the Amazon walkouts as a precursor to the concerns of those workers

I will also cite that and just imagine truckers deciding it is too risky to deliver goods into NYC .;or clerks in grocery stores refusing to stock shelves . Or pharmaceutical workers refusing to run the machines that make the medicines we need . I can do without your hair cut (and my clippers will be in next week .I figure using them 3 times will pay for them with the money I will no longer have to pay my hair dresser .)

[talaniman]

I think he was doing what he frequently does which is "thinking out loud." It is extremely unwise. Probably the greatest disappointment I have with Trump is the fact that he has learned very little about how to deal with the public. He does not govern his mouth. Still, to say that he was suggesting that people go out and inject disinfectant into their veins is flatly untrue. But Trump should know by now that his dumb, thoughtless comments allow liberals who are largely unconcerned with being truthful to distort his statements. He is right in much of what he says about fake news, but when your house is one fire, you don't need to throw gasoline on it.

Yeah I can see commercials running all over the place of videos of his thinking out loud in public, at the podium. They are airing as I speak, so don't blame liberals for that, since he did it himself. He sets his own house on fire, and repubs would and have done the same thing to Biden. We could call this the year of politics in the middle of a pandemic.

Pretty catchy don't you think?

[jlisenbe]

What they did is similar to what you did. Not trying to be ugly, but you concocted a fake quote by Trump ("injecting disinfectant") in an effort to distort what he actually said. Athos did the same thing is saying that Trump encouraged insurrection and called upon people to "storm statehouses", a comment he never made. So it's fine with me if people want to quote him. I just hope they do so accurately.

And remember that Biden is a factory of mass production when it comes to making dumb comments. I guess you can say that both sides will supply each other with plenty of ammo.