[jlisenbe]

Tom, what these people are saying is that aside from those more than 30 actions, Trump has done nothing.

[talaniman]

I have acknowledged the huge challenge we face and anyone would be hard pressed to catch up to this virus effectively. Having said that though, take the dufus from the equation, because he has done nothing but take credit for what the governors and his administration have accomplished since this thing started. The people around him are trying their best no doubt, but it can't be easy fighting a REAL virus, and a REAL dufus at the same time.

I might feel different if not for his daily public antics and lies during these serious times, which amounts to self promotion more than leadership, but to be honest I wouldn't be foolish enough to follow him anywhere, or believe anything he says.

Case in point the gathering evidence that his promotion of a drug is proving more dangerous than useful in fighting the virus except maybe those fighting an underlying ailment which the drug is used for any way. Fauci said that in the beginning though, but who listens to him?

[jlisenbe]

he has done nothing but take credit for what...his administration have accomplished

So he is taking credit for what his administration has done??? Whoever heard of such a thing.

I might feel different if not for his daily public antics and lies during these serious times,

I don't think you would.

[tomder55]

What do you think Presidents do ? Wash beakers in a lab ? Of course his administrators took action at his direction . I could've posted another 30 or more actions taken by the TRUMP ADMINISTRATION since where I cut it off on March 20. I thought maybe you would get the point .

The man who tells us to trust science and the scientific method comes to a conclusion by a non-peer reviewed study that had a total of 368 patients in VA hospitals . I'm sure they determined in advance optimal dosage and duration of treatment .And how critical were the patients ?

Now Novartis is going to be doing an FDA sponsored clinical trial in more than a dozen sites around the country . It will be far more extensive and ethical.

[talaniman]

Just not going to let me sound fair are you? The whole administration is incompetent and that starts at the top. Your 30 talking points you think are so great is nothing but proclamations and paper shuffling that have accomplished NOTHING.

Happy now? Or did you expect me to point by point knock down all those claims of excellence you want to credit the dufus for? The bottom line is always what is really accomplished so far? We're still waiting for PPE for essential workers, and testing for everybody after how many months?

You cannot ignore that!

[tomder55]

Funny thing about PPE . The Chinese knew they unleashed this hell on the world .So one of the first things they did was to corner the market . This at the same time that

US manufacturers like 3M and Honeywell told the White House that China prohibited them from exporting their products from China .. The ChiComs spent a fortune early in the year buying up the international stock of PPE.They even sold back to Italy the PPE that Italy had donated to them .

[talaniman]

Should we blame the Chinese for being ruthless opportunistic capitalists, or our own business community for getting into dumb contracts with authoritarians, leaving the homeland very dependent on the competition? Another point of contention for me that during a pandemic they invested in their own self interest and reap the rewards. You could make the case that 3M and Honeywell didn't get in on the opportunity with their own American plants. Not the first time American plants overseas got caught taking foreign profits from ruthless governments against American interests.

So Tom, what did Washington do about the ChiComs blocking export to America?

[tomder55]

well we did not drop a nuke if that is what yiu mean . This wasn't a matter of bad contracts . This was a matter of the Chicoms violating contracts . 3M manufactures in China to export to the US . Was it a bad deal for the US ? Clearly . I don't know when 3M went to China . I can almost guarantee that it was not on Trump's watch . He was railing against bad business deals with China for years before he ran for President .

The US government ;the state of Missouri ,various health care providers have filed or is in the process of filing lawsuits against China .

Me I would go further . I would let the Chinese know that as of today ,their Treasury holdings have the value of toilet paper until this is resolved . I would also get together with the rest of the G7 and formally sue them for trillions for patent violations and

Articles Six and Seven of the International Health Regulations [IHRs], a Treaty to which China is a signatory and legally obliged to uphold. I would hold an investigation in China's role in hiding a number of factors about the Wuhan virus 'sanction Xi and all his ministers ;deny China the right to have pharmaceuticals in the US supply chain. China has tried to blame the US for the outbreak going so far as to say we intentionally released it . That effort has to be challenged . Already some 3rd world nations are buying into that bs .

[jlisenbe]

Me I would go further . I would let the Chinese know that as of today ,their Treasury holdings have the value of toilet paper until this is resolved .

I'm not sure any nation as dependent on credit as we sadly are can afford to make itself look unreliable as regards it debts. But then if we lost our ability to borrow easy money, it could be the best thing to happen to us.

[talaniman]

You may be interested in this as some background

https://knowledge.ckgsb.edu.cn/2014/...y-china-china/

I wasn't looking for nuking China, but an explanation and restitution in a very big way would be in order. This is a dirty premeditated move by anyone's imagination. As bad as the dufus trade wars? Stupid but not even close.

[tomder55]

Seizing their assets would be a big shot across the bow . They could retaliate .however they need American investment in their country more than we need them .But yeah that is probably not going to happen Maybe we could convince them to "forgive " some of their holding of US debt as part of a restitution . It is time to stop treating them like a reliable trading partner and begin disengagement . China knew that person to person transmission was happening by the 2nd week of December . They hid that fact until January 20. The WHO went to bat for them and their lie on Jan 14. They are complicit in an act of wmd terrorism by their cover up and denials.

[Wondergirl]

"3M became the first wholly-owned foreign-invested enterprise in China in 1984 and has since invested more than $1 billion in the country. 3M China has now grown to more than 11 sites and 8,000 employees."
https://news.3m.com/press-release/co...as-west-region

[talaniman]

Seizing their assets would be a big shot across the bow . They could retaliate .however they need American investment in their country more than we need them .But yeah that is probably not going to happen Maybe we could convince them to "forgive " some of their holding of US debt as part of a restitution . It is time to stop treating them like a reliable trading partner and begin disengagement . China knew that person to person transmission was happening by the 2nd week of December . They hid that fact until January 20. The WHO went to bat for them and their lie on Jan 14. They are complicit in an act of wmd terrorism by their cover up and denials.

I was thinking more along the lines of 3M taking actions since it amounts to one entity breaking the contract, by stopping exports than between two governments squabbling. Isn't that the free market solution? I'm surprised them and other MNC haven't gone that route before.

I've always thought that American companies took to much guff off of foreign nations when dealing with government run businesses. I know hard to give up the Chinese markets or any other for that matter, and stop your cut of the profits, but a breach of contract lawsuit by GM and others would at least leverage some renegotiations with better terms and outcomes. Not like they don't have PROOF and the lawyers to push it.

I mean what's the point of being a capitalists if your scared of pissing off authoritarian governments? I was downright disappointed when the NBA didn't tell Xi to screw himself, or Microsoft allowing their product to be sanitized for Chinese consumption. Yes I blame Big Biz for being exploited for their GREED!

"3M became the first wholly-owned foreign-invested enterprise in China in 1984 and has since invested more than $1 billion in the country. 3M China has now grown to more than 11 sites and 8,000 employees."
https://news.3m.com/press-release/co...as-west-region

With that kind of investment one wonder what their ROI is!

[jlisenbe]

Thought we could start the day with a little humor.

[paraclete]

Haaaaaa! Haaaaa!

[talaniman]

Not to bad...

[jlisenbe]

Wouldn't the fourth one down sort of be the equivalent of holding your nose and voting for Biden?

[talaniman]

Not really, GO JOE GO!

[jlisenbe]

Hmmm. Your cartoon. Your nose.

[paraclete]

When you don't have a solution, any solution will do