[jlisenbe]

Throw in a bit of religion, and you come up with the unbelieving dead spending eternity in hell undergoing constant torture. That's from the religious right.

You ever decide what you think of the Matthew 25 passage?

[Athos]

You ever decide what you think of the Matthew 25 passage?

Yes, I have.

[jlisenbe]

Perhaps you will share it with us one of these days. Jesus clearly spoke of an eternal hell.

[jlisenbe]

Back to the federal budget for a moment. We are now spending, adjusted for inflation, about three times more than we spent in 1980. Not adjusted for inflation, it has risen about 900%. That is just crazy. Spending is out of control and thus we have enormous budget deficits.






https://www.mercatus.org/sites/defau...utlays1000.png

http://www.polidiotic.com/by-the-num...ficit-by-year/

[talaniman]

It's not enough to say you're spending to much without the why and where of it. In addition a consideration to increase revenues is also needed.

[Athos]

Perhaps you will share it with us one of these days.

I intend to.

It's not enough to say you're spending to much without the why and where of it. In addition a consideration to increase revenues is also needed.

Obama's spending was to avoid a disastrous recession/depression. Trump's spending was to reward his rich friends.

[jlisenbe]

It's not enough to say you're spending to much without the why and where of it. In addition a consideration to increase revenues is also needed.

So if you go disastrously into debt, it's OK as long as you can give the "why and where of it?" Try that with your personal finances and see how far you get. The only way out of this is to insist that our politicians of both parties behave responsibly. The continuous and deranged excuse-making for Obama DOUBLING the national debt gets old. Obama and Trump are both skunks with identical stripes when it comes to spending.

If you increased income tax revenues by 25%, which no one is proposing, you would still have a deficit of hundreds of billions of dollars. It cannot be done without reducing spending. That is going to happen someday. We can just wait until doomsday like Greece did or we can grow up and become responsible adults. I think we owe it to our children to do the right thing.

[Athos]

The continuous and deranged excuse-making for Obama DOUBLING the national debt gets old.

The Republicans left Obama with a crashing economy which was headed toward another Great Depression. Obama saved the nation and the world with his spending.

Obama left Trump with a burgeoning rapidly recovering economy which Trump, through no talent of his own, continues to claim its successes as his own.

These are facts, not opinions.

Calling Obama's efforts "deranged excuses" is itself deranged.

[jlisenbe]

The Republicans left Obama with a crashing economy which was headed toward another Great Depression. Obama saved the nation and the world with his spending.

So it required eight years of continuous, unbroken deficit spending to the tune of 9 trillion dollars to "save the world"??? That's laughable.

It's just the typical liberal spin. "It's fine when I do it, but it's bad when you do it." Just more of the same.

[Athos]

So it required eight years of continuous, unbroken deficit spending to the tune of 9 trillion dollars to "save the world"??? That's laughable.

No, it's not laughable, but it is complicated. Non-economists are prone to "headline reporting". They rarely have the skills or patience to make the effort to truly understand what's happening financially.

I've provided here (below link) a non-partisan explanation of Obama's actions during the financial crisis he inherited. His responsibility, depending on how you look at it, is as low as just under one trillion dollars overall for his term. Or as high as the nine trillion you claimed. The reality is probably somewhere in between.

In any case, the solution carried out by Obama was far, far better than doing what the conservative right-wing was suggesting. That was to let the world economy play out and self-correct. Such a method would undoubtedly have had little impact on the national debt, but the price would have been enormous in human terms.

https://www.thebalance.com/national-...-obama-3306293

[jlisenbe]

Budget deficit = spending minus revenues. Not complicated. It is simply how much money had to be borrowed. Any other way of describing it is just political speech designed to cover up poor performance. But even at that, while a person might be able to justify some of the deficit spending the first year or two of Obama's presidency, to try and suggest he had to engage in hundreds of billions of dollars of deficit spending every year for eight years is just fantasy. Obama engaged in about as much deficit spending as every other president before him combined.

[Athos]

Obama engaged in about as much deficit spending as every other president before him combined.

Because of prior Republican mismanagement.

[jlisenbe]

Because of prior Republican mismanagement.

Lib rule #1. It's OK if we do it, but wrong if you do it.
Lib rule #2. It's always someone else's fault.

Those repubs must have been pretty powerful (and Obama mighty weak) to make Obama run multi-hundred billion dollar deficits even seven or eight years into his administration.

[talaniman]

Naw it was the usual repub mismanagement and right wing loony noise.

[jlisenbe]

Naw it was the usual repub mismanagement and right wing loony noise.

Refer to liberal rule #2.

[talaniman]

Refer to post #228, or any history book.

[jlisenbe]

Post 228 was the fairytale Athos told. You'll have to do a lot better than that.

When you tell people to look at "any history book", it tells me you have no idea what history book to look in. In the meantime, democrat and republican politicians alike continue to increase the national debt to disastrous levels and no one cares. Everyone is too interested in participating in partisan politics and circus sideshows like the Trump impeachment charade. The pols are happy because they can brag about lowering taxes and increasing spending ("taking care" of people). They don't think about ten years from now, but they think a lot about reelection. And we have become so stupid and thoughtless that we allow them to get away with it and even worship some of them.

[talaniman]

Athos has FACTS, you have words. The dufus wanted a favor from Ukraine which was illegal, yet you right wing loonies say investigating that is a charade. Investigate Biden with no evidence of wrong doing isn't? You worship a lying cheating dufus but bash dems for worshipping Obama?

Yeah read any history book you want, but you take your deficit funded tax cuts, and holler about the deficit? Bet you'd be thrilled with another tax cut wouldn't you? Your concern for the debt and deficit doesn't match your words, fella! Makes for a heckuva fairytale though and explains your support for the biggest fairy teller of all time, though LIAR, and cheater would be a lot more accurate and precise a description.

Liars and cheaters should be investigated I'm sure you agree. NO?

[jlisenbe]

Athos has FACTS,

Oh? Let's hear those facts. Making a statement and then just claiming it's a fact doesn't count.

The dufus wanted a favor from Ukraine which was illegal, yet you right wing loonies say investigating that is a charade. Investigate Biden with no evidence of wrong doing isn't? You worship a lying cheating dufus but bash dems for worshipping Obama?

Calm down. You have no evidence that Trump did anything illegal. If it existed, the dems would be falling all over themselves to hold an impeachment vote. As to HB, we'll see about that. One thing we know for certain. Burisma did not hire him because of his expertise in oil, gas, and business. Wonder why they did hire him??? He said it was because of his last name. What do you think?

Yeah read any history book you want

Like I said, you have no clue what any history book says about that episode. If you did, you would already have referred to it.

but you take your deficit funded tax cuts, and holler about the deficit? Bet you'd be thrilled with another tax cut wouldn't you? Your concern for the debt and deficit doesn't match your words, fella! Makes for a heckuva fairytale though and explains your support for the biggest fairy teller of all time, though LIAR, and cheater would be a lot more accurate and precise a description.

I've already shown you that the deficit is not simply the result of tax cuts. It is the result of fantastic, irresponsible, and disastrous increases in fed spending. The feds spend almost ten times more now than just 40 years ago. There is no excuse for it, and there is no reasonable level of taxation that would close the deficit. It is just that simple. Not even your beloved dems have suggested anything. The deficit is now so great that neither party will suggest a solution because they know it will have to be significant and unpopular. Our country has become so filled with stupid, non-thinking people that I don't see much hope for it. We are exactly like a married couple who bury themselves in debt to the point that there is no way out.

Liars and cheaters should be investigated I'm sure you agree. NO?

You better be ready to investigate about half the Congress including Schiff and Pelosi. You better be ready to investigate Obama because he lied without question about Benghazi. I wonder if we are truly prepared to set aside our partisan political ideas to engage in such investigations.

[talaniman]

Oh? Let's hear those facts. Making a statement and then just claiming it's a fact doesn't count.

You can easily fact check Athos and find that he is correct about his FACTS. Explaining it to a closed minded person who is in denial is the issue, not the FACTS!

Calm down. You have no evidence that Trump did anything illegal. If it existed, the dems would be falling all over themselves to hold an impeachment vote. As to HB, we'll see about that. One thing we know for certain. Burisma did not hire him because of his expertise in oil, gas, and business. Wonder why they did hire him??? He said it was because of his last name. What do you think?

That's what the INQUIRY process is about, gathering FACTS! There is also a process for investigating Americans in foreign lands and the dufus hasn't followed that either.

Like I said, you have no clue what any history book says about that episode. If you did, you would already have referred to it.

Just pick one and see what it says about the economic situation on 2007. How simple is that since even though we have linked it and talked it to death, and you still say it didn't happen. Nothing else I can do for you there bud!

I've already shown you that the deficit is not simply the result of tax cuts. It is the result of fantastic, irresponsible, and disastrous increases in fed spending. The feds spend almost ten times more now than just 40 years ago. There is no excuse for it, and there is no reasonable level of taxation that would close the deficit. It is just that simple. Not even your beloved dems have suggested anything. The deficit is now so great that neither party will suggest a solution because they know it will have to be significant and unpopular. Our country has become so filled with stupid, non-thinking people that I don't see much hope for it. We are exactly like a married couple who bury themselves in debt to the point that there is no way out.

The tax cuts are but an example of spending that contributes to the deficit true, but it would help if you would be more specific about that irresponsible spending over decades that has ballooned the deficit. Then we can discuss those specifics.

You better be ready to investigate about half the Congress including Schiff and Pelosi. You better be ready to investigate Obama because he lied without question about Benghazi. But I'd be willing to bet you are not interested in doing any of that. Your partisan political outlook won't allow for it.

Repubs did investigate HC and Obama and found NOTHING on Benghazi, so no not interested in doing it yet again. Same goes for all your investigations that end up no where. You want to investigate everybody in congress and there mama's, go ahead. Let me know how that works because I think you need evidence and not just right wing loony conspiracy theories that get debunked with REAL investigations.

You got nothing but noise, or are just plain incompetent! Bet you know that though!