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talaniman · Nov 15, 2018, 08:04 PM

I answered this in another question but it's apt here. If Jesus said give Caesar his due then why complain when the government takes YOUR money to help he poor old and children? It's not your picture on the money is it?

paraclete · Nov 15, 2018, 08:47 PM

Originally Posted by talaniman

I answered this in another question but it's apt here. If Jesus said give Caesar his due then why complain when the government takes YOUR money to help he poor old and children? It's not your picture on the money is it?

Well, it is one way of looking at it, and we should take this view that God appoints governments and what they do with our money is lawfull particularly if it alleviates poverty in all its forms however only godly people will comply and the rest remain rebellous

talaniman · Nov 16, 2018, 07:32 AM

Well I don't know how godly our government is right now, and only the wealthy are exempt from poverty but I would settle for honesty though.

jlisenbe · Nov 16, 2018, 08:39 AM

I answered this in another question but it's apt here. If Jesus said give Caesar his due then why complain when the government takes YOUR money to help he poor old and children? It's not your picture on the money is it?

That is a great question! I could phrase it a bit differently. When politicians take your money and my money and give it to the non-workers, the lazy, and the irresponsible for the twin purposes of buying their votes and satisfying those who love to brag that they love the poor so much they are willing to help them with money extracted in taxes from others, then should we be against that?

talaniman · Nov 16, 2018, 10:51 AM

You would have to embrace that every body who gets help is lazy, and that I don't buy, and all elected officials are out to get votes, which is plausible, but who expects to get votes from those that offer NOTHING but a mouth full of gimme and not so much as a much obliged? I thing that's just basic human nature, as surely as denigrating and lumping the poor and needy into one category that they might not fit, or be fair. That would be prejudging... prejudiced... against a particular group wouldn't you say? Wouldn't that preclude as your savior says to NOT judge? It seems that taking the time to get the facts of a humans condition is exactly what the system is about, and not just an automatic thing you suggest.

I get the suspicions though, but verifying is part of the process in my view before badmouthing occurs. Some may deserve it, but some may not, and those should be spared humiliation based on feelings and not facts.

Wondergirl · Nov 16, 2018, 10:56 AM

WE vote for these officials.

jlisenbe · Nov 16, 2018, 01:21 PM

as surely as denigrating and lumping the poor and needy into one category that they might not fit,

I would agree with your conclusion if I had said that, but in fact I have not. What I HAVE said is, to me, unarguable, which is that many people on welfare should not get a dime because they could be working, especially in this dynamite economy we have now. They could work two jobs if need be and support themselves.

We can make a case for those who are genuinely physically or mentally disabled to be on public assistance of some sort, and for children as well, but that should be it, and even those who are adults should have jobs that they are capable of doing. There is great dignity in work.

Yes, a lot of poor people vote democrat because they are viewed as the party of giveaways. Reference the Obama cell phone give away program.

Wondergirl · Nov 16, 2018, 01:32 PM

We can make a case for those who are genuinely physically or mentally disabled to be on public assistance of some sort, and for children as well

Who's taking care of the disabled adults and children, and children in general?

jlisenbe · Nov 16, 2018, 01:43 PM

Hopefully their parents are, but with the insanity of single parent homes which has now become so dominant, it is a problem. The feds have quite a number of programs for children, all the way from food stamps to AFDC to free schooling to medicaid.

Wondergirl · Nov 16, 2018, 01:52 PM

Hopefully their parents are

Then who's working at all those great jobs?

jlisenbe · Nov 16, 2018, 02:05 PM

Those who believe in taking care of their own needs and not expecting someone else to do it. BTW, I have made no reference to "great" jobs. I have worked many jobs in my life that were not "great", but they served to meet my needs so I would not be dependent on others. In that sense only were they great.

Wondergirl · Nov 16, 2018, 02:37 PM

Originally Posted by jlisenbe

many people on welfare should not get a dime because they could be working, especially in this dynamite economy we have now. They could work two jobs if need be and support themselves.

Here's your mention of great jobs ("dynamite economy").

I have worked many jobs in my life that were not "great", but they served to meet my needs so I would not be dependent on others. In that sense only were they great.

Where were your small children?

jlisenbe · Nov 16, 2018, 03:42 PM

Small children?? We raised three.

Here's your mention of great jobs ("dynamite economy").

Now that's really funny. You say, "Here's your mention of great jobs," and then can't find any mention of great jobs. Yes, we have a dynamite economy with under 4% unemployment, so people who want to work can find a job. I said nothing about every job is a great job, so for you to suggest I did seems to border on being deceitful, does it not?

Wondergirl · Nov 16, 2018, 03:48 PM

Originally Posted by jlisenbe

Small children?? We raised three.

You're avoiding my question. Where were they while you and your wife worked?

Now that's really funny. You say, "Here's your mention of great jobs," and then can't find any mention of great jobs. Yes, we have a dynamite economy with under 4% unemployment, so people who want to work can find a job. I said nothing about every job is a great job, so for you to suggest I did seems to border on being deceitful, does it not?

Stop nattering! Any job is a great job. I shelved library materials for $3 an hour. That was a great job that led to a career.

jlisenbe · Nov 16, 2018, 03:53 PM

You're avoiding my question. Where were they while you and your wife worked?

I did not avoid your question. I misunderstood what you were asking. When they were young, my wife worked part time and WE paid someone to watch them while she worked. They later enrolled in school, spent some time in daycare which WE paid for, or participated in sports that WE paid for. So what's your point? If it's that schools are government agencies, I have already pointed that out myself. What else??

Stop nattering! Any job is a great job. I shelved library materials for $3 an hour. That was a great job that led to a career.

I would agree with that about jobs. Nattering??? Me??? Who would ever think such a thing!

Wondergirl · Nov 16, 2018, 03:55 PM

Originally Posted by jlisenbe

I did not avoid your question. I misunderstood what you were asking. When they were young, my wife worked part time and WE paid someone to watch them while she worked.

So it would be best if every couple, even very poor ones, with small children or disabled children (who may be disabled adults) follow this plan.

jlisenbe · Nov 16, 2018, 03:57 PM

So it would be best if every couple with small children or disabled children (who may be disabled adults) follow this plan.

No question mark, so I assume that is a statement with which I would certainly agree.

talaniman · Nov 16, 2018, 04:47 PM

Great plan on paper, but reality is many one earner households are females with kids who don't have the option of PAYING for childcare, so what plan do you have for them, and their kids, since we cannot go back and undo what has been done?

jlisenbe · Nov 16, 2018, 05:00 PM

Great plan on paper, but reality is many one earner households are females with kids who don't have the option of PAYING for childcare, so what plan do you have for them, and their kids, since we cannot go back and undo what has been done?

Many women are getting pregnant out of wedlock and having kids with the expectation of federal support. You might could talk me into continuing to provide help if we had a "sunset clause" in the legislation to the effect that, for instance, after the end of 2019, that support would not be available for woman having babies out of wedlock born after that date. We are subsidizing this nonsense and it needs to stop. When the subsidy stops, the poor decision making will begin to decline.

The idea of women saying, "If you want to sleep with me, you will have to marry me because I am not going to assume the risks of pregnancy and the task of raising children by myself," is a pretty good idea. Women should not be viewed as sexual conquests, and they should not allow themselves to be treated that way.

Wondergirl · Nov 16, 2018, 05:42 PM

We are subsidizing this nonsense and it needs to stop

Then change the media (messages in songs, in tv shows, in movies, in popular fiction, in print media) and make sure parents are teaching their children that providing sex is not how girls get guys to love them, that having babies is not how to lock in a boyfriend and make him yours forever, and, in general, about the facts of life, birth control, and the responsibilities of parenthood.