[tomder55]

not true 15-16% of Americans live at or below the poverty line. That is even relative because each nation creates it's own poverty line .So affluent nations poor are better off than most countries poor. From the NY Times ….

Notice how the entire line for the United States resides in the top portion of the graph? That’s because the entire country is relatively rich. In fact, America’s bottom ventile is still richer than most of the world: That is, the typical person in the bottom 5 percent of the American income distribution is still richer than 68 percent of the world’s inhabitants.
Now check out the line for India. India’s poorest ventile corresponds with the 4th poorest percentile worldwide. And its richest? The 68th percentile. Yes, that’s right: America’s poorest are, as a group, about as rich as India’s richest.

All of which should be something of a reality check for those who insist that America's poor are being forgotten, left behind and all the rest.

Even if you're stuck in the bottom 5% of the US income distribution your standard of living is about equal to that of the top 5% of Indians. Even if you're in the bottom 10% your standard of living is about the same as that of the bottom 10% in other rich countries (which, so we are told, care so much more and do so much more) like Sweden and Finland. And when we sweep everything together into some sort of quality of life measure the American poor are better off than the French or German poor. Maybe it's true that the US doesn't do enough for the poor in the US. That's rather a judgement call based upon your own morals. But it's very difficult to see in the actual figures that the US doesn't do enough. The poor in the US are richer than around 70% of all the people extant. The poor in the US are about as poor, perhaps a bit richer, than the poor in other rich countries. It is true that there is more inequality in the US: but this isn't because the poor are poorer. It's because the rich are richer.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/timwors.../#3c6ca4b854ef

[tomder55]

The number of people receiving Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program benefits declined by 3.1 million since Trump assumed office.

[paraclete]

A very subjective graph, undoubtedly a poor person in a western country has more money than a poor person in a third world country, but there is a difference in purchasing power, so they are still poor and under privileged. In China I could buy breakfast for $0.20, I can't do it here

[talaniman]

I don't compare countries just observe my own and 45 million below poverty does not reflect the people who are just above it by a few bucks, of which the numbers goes way up to half of Americans.

[Athos]

The number of people receiving Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program benefits declined by 3.1 million since Trump assumed office.

What a non-sequitur!! Trump has nothing to do with declining SNAP enrollment. Simple cause and effect - bad times more SNAP, good times less SNAP. People who find jobs have less need for food assistance. SNAP also declined during Obama administration.

not true 15-16% of Americans live at or below the poverty line. That is even relative because each nation creates it's own poverty line .So affluent nations poor are better off than most countries poor. From the NY Times ….

Notice how the entire line for the United States resides in the top portion of the graph? That’s because the entire country is relatively rich. In fact, America’s bottom ventile is still richer than most of the world: That is, the typical person in the bottom 5 percent of the American income distribution is still richer than 68 percent of the world’s inhabitants.
Now check out the line for India. India’s poorest ventile corresponds with the 4th poorest percentile worldwide. And its richest? The 68th percentile. Yes, that’s right: America’s poorest are, as a group, about as rich as India’s richest.

All of which should be something of a reality check for those who insist that America's poor are being forgotten, left behind and all the rest.

Even if you're stuck in the bottom 5% of the US income distribution your standard of living is about equal to that of the top 5% of Indians. Even if you're in the bottom 10% your standard of living is about the same as that of the bottom 10% in other rich countries (which, so we are told, care so much more and do so much more) like Sweden and Finland. And when we sweep everything together into some sort of quality of life measure the American poor are better off than the French or German poor. Maybe it's true that the US doesn't do enough for the poor in the US. That's rather a judgement call based upon your own morals. But it's very difficult to see in the actual figures that the US doesn't do enough. The poor in the US are richer than around 70% of all the people extant. The poor in the US are about as poor, perhaps a bit richer, than the poor in other rich countries. It is true that there is more inequality in the US: but this isn't because the poor are poorer. It's because the rich are richer.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/timwors.../#3c6ca4b854ef

Comparing poverty with other countries is always an exercise in futility, and misleading. Poverty in America is NOT poverty in Africa. True that the cost of living has to be taken into account which tends to reduce gross disparities.

The real issue, in my opinion, is income inequality.

[talaniman]

He addressed that Athos,

It is true that there is more inequality in the US: but this isn't because the poor are poorer. It's because the rich are richer.

Rising prices and getting priced out of the market for goods and services doesn't count. Brings the question of WHY after tax cuts and as much corporate welfare they can handle has a low wage worker NOT gotten a raise?

HINT; Starts with G and rhymes with NEED!

Can't be Campaign Contributions can it?

[tomder55]

income inequity . a very Marxist view of the world .

According to the government’s own reports, the typical American defined as poor by the Census Bureau has a car, air conditioning, and cable or satellite TV. Half of the poor have computers, 43 percent have Internet, and 40 percent have a wide-screen plasma or LCD TV.
Far from being overcrowded, poor Americans have more living space in their home than the average non-poor person in Western Europe. Some 42 percent of all poor households actually own their own homes.According to the U.S. Department of Agriculture, only 4 percent of poor children were hungry for even a single day in the prior year because the family could not afford food. By its own report, the average poor person had sufficient funds to meet all essential needs and was able to obtain medical care for his family throughout the year whenever needed.

[talaniman]

You tout the poor that make it, and we talk of the poor that don't and by your own posts, that's MORE than half of the poor population Income inequality exists not in Marxland but in America, and accounts for 90% of the country.

That's A LOT more than half. As far as those medical needs being met, maybe you should dig into those states that limited Medicaid, and all those folks that that never see a doctor for lack of funds or insurance.

https://www.kff.org/other/state-indi...2:%22asc%22%7D

https://www.cdc.gov/MinorityHealth/index.html

[jlisenbe]

Tal, you seem to be very concerned about the poor. What are you doing personally, with your own resources, to help the poor? Not pointing a finger, just asking.

[talaniman]

As a friend of Bill, I do a lot of volunteer work with addicts and alcoholics trying to turn their lives around by getting jobs, training for jobs, benefits, housing, and that often means daycare services, restoring of rights following release from jail if needed manning hotlines and food drives sponsored by churches and NGO's, and various women's shelters, sometimes light weight maintenance so I have seen many not at their best and how you kick someone who's down is beyond me.

Not doing a lot lately, personal family and health issues to deal with, but its hard to turn down requests and emergencies. I just do what I can, because I know first hand how much it means when strangers do what they could for me when I was down, overwhelmed and helpless.

I'm about what you would expect from a person with a PHD from the College of Hard Knocks. Glad you asked.

[jlisenbe]

I'm about what you would expect from a person with a PHD from the College of Hard Knocks.

Sometimes I think that's one of the best degrees you can have.

Interesting that you and I are both involved with helping addicts. Very tough deal.

I'm interested in when you think I have kicked someone who is down. If you have gotten that from my writing, then I have plainly not been accurate. I think I have repeatedly stated I am all for helping those who are down, but I am against the forcible taking of money from some people to give to others. I am in favor of ME doing something and then helping others get involved. But kicking someone who is down? I'd love to know where you got that from.

Bill who?

[talaniman]

Don't take it personally, sometimes my zeal to defend those who are not here to defend themselves gets rather passionate, and I acknowledge this. I always think that that it's unfair to denigrate folks because they are different, have issues, or go against someone's belief system without taking a look at their story, situation and circumstance. Having scrounged around in the gutter myself I know how easy it is to get there and how hard it is to find the curb and pull yourself up to the sidewalk. It's darn near impossible for many without some help. It's a very desperate situation and I just have a place in my heart for women and children who are often helpless.

So when Bill told me to count my blessings and be grateful, and pass it on to another who suffers, I try to do just that to the fullest of my ability. That's when I learned that drugs and alcohol, and the behavior that comes with it, are but the visible symptom of deeper problems that need to be addressed.

Now you know how I keep my sanity, even if I cross the lines of good behavior sometimes and if I did that, then you have my apology. I try to do better, but it don't always work but I keep trying. I hope I answered your question.

[paraclete]

So Tal all you can do is help, you cannot solve the problem

[talaniman]

Doing NOTHING is no solution either.

[jlisenbe]

I always think that that it's unfair to denigrate folks because they are different, have issues, or go against someone's belief system without taking a look at their story, situation and circumstance.

I agree completely. To denigrate someone is one thing. To say that an activity is unwise and counterproductive is not only not denigration, it is one of the aspects of love. To pretend that it is productive is wrong.

I appreciate you sharing your story. For me, I was raised with two great parents in a barely middle class home. I went to a church where the Gospel was preached and we were told that we have a personal responsibility before Jesus for those who are struggling. I have lived that way (imperfectly) all my adult life. I do get tired of the "holier than thou" outlook of liberals who think that because they legally force others to engage in charity, that they are somehow on a high moral plane. I am convinced that taking money from one American to give to another is, itself, immoral. But I do enjoy seeing the outlooks of others.

[talaniman]

Thanks for sharing JL, I have always thought you were KOOL from the plumbing pages. We may disagree about many things as folks are likely to do, but I respect your side of it even if I can't see it. I ain't shy about my opinions and happily you aren't either. Actually that's what makes you KOOL with me! Just my OPINION. 8)

[jlisenbe]

Thanks for sharing JL, I have always thought you were KOOL from the plumbing pages. We may disagree about many things as folks are likely to do, but I respect your side of it even if I can't see it. I ain't shy about my opinions and happily you aren't either. Actually that's what makes you KOOL with me! Just my OPINION. 8)

Amen. We can discuss things, disagree, and still respect each other. Now if we can only talk the other 320 million Americans into doing that, our country will improve.

[paraclete]

You are in no danger from the pigs

[talaniman]

The Dufus and his sycophants are the danger. Check your pockets.

[jlisenbe]

And so the game continues! Check your pockets for higher wages and lower taxes, or check your pockets to make sure a liberal is not exercising his/her morality by taking your money and giving it to the poor?