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Athos · Jul 27, 2018, 01:09 AM

Cohen is reported to have claimed that Trump knew in advance and encouraged the infamous meeting between the Russians and Trump Jr. in Trump Tower for the purpose of getting dirt on Hillary. If true, Trump intended to enter into a conspiracy with a foreign power to influence a presidential election - an impeachable offense.

Cohen is about to spill his guts about all his dealings as Trump's fixer over the years - paying off porn stars, playmates, and God knows what else. Cohen, more than anyone else, knows where the bodies are buried. He has decided to pledge his allegiance to country and family instead of Donald Trump.

jlisenbe · Jul 27, 2018, 05:39 AM

Cohen is reported to have claimed that Trump knew in advance and encouraged the infamous meeting between the Russians and Trump Jr. in Trump Tower for the purpose of getting dirt on Hillary.

Even if true, and that's a big "if", it would not be a violation of the law. And even that leaves out the fact that no information was obtained. I think they are chasing the wind on this one.

paraclete · Jul 27, 2018, 06:12 AM

Certainly a grave political error, but a conspiracy to have meeting, I think it is drawing a long bow. He might be guilty of lying but he hasn't done it under oath, intent? what are we becoming here, the thought police? and if he had the "dirt", what was he going to do with it?

tomder55 · Jul 27, 2018, 08:59 AM

I love the way this is being reported ...explosive !! MSNBC called it an international conspiracy . Cohen's story will not hold up without independent corroboration . He has too much personally at stake . Mueller's team of "investigators " ransacked his offices and home and took a big haul of files away. One thing I keep on saying is that the NY real estate industry is sleazy and I'm sure Mueller found some dirt on Cohen that would pressure him to jump through hoops if Mueller told him to do so.
It sorta reminds me of the Senate hearing in 'The GodFather 2 " . 'Look the FBI guys they promised me a deal . So I made up a lot of stuff...... "

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eUjjzwIrebQ

Hmmm a campaign meeting with Russians to get dirt on their opponent ...where did we hear that before ?

talaniman · Jul 27, 2018, 11:20 AM

I think this goes well beyond the NY real estate industry. Try the National and local elections as Mueller has subpoenaed The Dufus business manager, because his name appeared on those TAPES Cohen made. Did Donald Jr. LIE? Of course he did, because the apple doesn't fall far from the tree now does it?

https://politicalwire.com/2018/07/26...ed-to-testify/

“Allen Weisselberg, a longtime financial gatekeeper for President Trump, has been subpoenaed to testify before a federal grand jury in the criminal probe of Mr. Trump’s former personal lawyer, Michael Cohen,” the Wall Street Journal reports.“Mr. Weisselberg is considered a witness in the investigation… It isn’t known whether he has already appeared before the grand jury or what questions prosecutors of New York’s Southern District have had for him.”

They have already subpoenaed The Dufus business records, so yeah the noose tightens. The Dufus may not need to testify before the special counsel since he appears to be a TARGET . If not now, then VERY soon.

jlisenbe · Jul 27, 2018, 02:55 PM

Did Donald Jr. LIE? Of course he did, because the apple doesn't fall far from the tree now does it?

Wow. I didn't realize Donald Jr. was Hillary Clinton's son! Go figure. (<:

paraclete · Jul 27, 2018, 05:13 PM

There are more liars in the world than one, it appears to be stock in trade in certain parts of the world

Athos · Jul 27, 2018, 06:15 PM

Of course, it's a violation of the law. Conspiracy law does not require the object of the conspiracy to be carried out, only that two or more conspire for unlawful purposes as was done here.

If credible, Cohen's testimony shows conspiracy, perpetrating a fraud on the United States, soliciting foreign help in a presidential election, and obstruction. It depends on who the jury believes. The choices are Trump; the greatest pathological liar ever seen in public life who denies every single one of his more than three thousand proven lies, or Cohen, a person who admits lying and is trying to mend his ways by cooperating with the prosecution and receiving lesser punishment.

In addition, Cohen possibly has witnesses to corroborate his testimony - Trump has none.

If Trump's collusion can be proved, it will be the biggest political scandal in American history. He will have been shown to be a presidential candidate who sought and received help from a hostile foreign power, hid that fact, and later, as president, returned the favor by his groveling attitude toward Putin, the leader of that foreign power.

Even the Republicans would finally find a reason to stop supporting Trump without fear of losing the votes of their constituencies.

talaniman · Jul 27, 2018, 07:39 PM

Originally Posted by paraclete

There are more liars in the world than one, it appears to be stock in trade in certain parts of the world

There are liars and predators, exploiters and just bad people everywhere Clete.

Originally Posted by Athos

Of course, it's a violation of the law. Conspiracy law does not require the object of the conspiracy to be carried out, only that two or more conspire for unlawful purposes as was done here.

If credible, Cohen's testimony shows conspiracy, perpetrating a fraud on the United States, soliciting foreign help in a presidential election, and obstruction. It depends on who the jury believes. The choices are Trump; the greatest pathological liar ever seen in public life who denies every single one of his more than three thousand proven lies, or Cohen, a person who admits lying and is trying to mend his ways by cooperating with the prosecution and receiving lesser punishment.

In addition, Cohen possibly has witnesses to corroborate his testimony - Trump has none.

If Trump's collusion can be proved, it will be the biggest political scandal in American history. He will have been shown to be a presidential candidate who sought and received help from a hostile foreign power, hid that fact, and later, as president, returned the favor by his groveling attitude toward Putin, the leader of that foreign power.

Even the Republicans would finally find a reason to stop supporting Trump without fear of losing the votes of their constituencies.

Everyday brings new hope they will get that lying, cheating dufus and his sycophants.

tomder55 · Jul 28, 2018, 01:56 AM

soliciting foreign help in a presidential election.

That would be Chris Steele ;a foreigner , being solicited by the Evita campaign ,through Fusion GPS ,to create an oppo research "dossier " full of unverified and salacious allegations provided to him by Russians close to Putin.

In addition, Cohen possibly has witnesses to corroborate his testimony - Trump has none.

lol maybe that is Glenn Simpson, the co-founder of Fusion GPS, who had dinner with Natalia Veselnitskaya ,(the Russian lawyer who briefly met with Jr at Trump tower), both the day before and the day after she met with Jr . To my knowlege Veselnitskaya has not been interviewed by the Mueller team.
This is so phony . Mueller punted on the Cohen case and handed it off the US 2nd district . That's because the stuff on Cohen has nothing to do with the election .

tomder55 · Jul 28, 2018, 02:03 AM

Everyday brings new hope they will get that lying, cheating dufus

and then what ? Yeah you can take down his associates and family in the legal system and try to use that as leverage . Trump's fight is political .Worse case is that he has to keep 2/3 of the Senate from convicting him of impeachment . That won't happen unless you have overwhelming public support for that action . Like it or not ,you will only be able to defeat him at the ballot box .....and the cast of misfits I see the Dems parading makes that prospect increasingly unlikely .

jlisenbe · Jul 28, 2018, 05:38 AM

If credible, Cohen's testimony shows conspiracy, perpetrating a fraud on the United States, soliciting foreign help in a presidential election, and obstruction. It depends on who the jury believes.

Suppose Donald Jr. had met with the Russkies and received some very helpful information on Ms. Clinton. That would not be a crime. If they had given him money, that's a crime, but not information. We might not like that, but it is not illegal. As to perpetrating a fraud on the government of the United States, that's a pretty wild claim. Obstruction of justice? Maybe, but only if, as you said, Cohen is credible.

Look, is Trump a saint? Not even close, but the democrats who nominated Clinton have no room to point fingers. HC is the most corrupt politician in my lifetime with the possible exceptions of Nixon and her husband. Can I agree with a lot of the criticism of Trump? Sure. He has a big mouth and a terrible habit of just saying/tweeting things without thinking about what he is saying, so I have complaints myself. In this last election, we had the most awful selection of candidates I can imagine. If you want to criticize Trump, then go for it, but at least acknowledge that we would not have had a really moral person in office if HC had been elected. The truth is, they are birds of the same feather in more ways than most people care to admit.

talaniman · Jul 28, 2018, 06:52 AM

Originally Posted by tomder55

That would be Chris Steele ;a foreigner , being solicited by the Evita campaign ,through Fusion GPS ,to create an oppo research "dossier " full of unverified and salacious allegations provided to him by Russians close to Putin.

Factually incorrect Tom. For one the repubs hired Steele initially and dropped him after The Dufus bullied his way to the nomination. The Dems picked him up after that, and it was repub John McCain who took the dossier to the FBI. Yes Steele is a foreigner, and ex intel operative for the British who last I checked was a friendly country that often collaborates with OUR intel community for years. You are correct the salacious parts of his dossier have not been verified, but to date the intel part has not been disproved and as the FISA release states the political actors complete with naming names was submitted to a FISA judge appointed by repubs, and renewed 3 times by 3 repub appointed judges, also conveyed additional probable cause to continue surveillance of the target.

I get the plan to put it all on Clinton and the dems, while being deceptive by omitting those pertinent details is the game The Dufus sycophants have engaged in to holler foul on the whole investigation but FACTS IS FACTS and you guys don't like FACTS and that's obvious.

lol maybe that is Glenn Simpson, the co-founder of Fusion GPS, who had dinner with Natalia Veselnitskaya ,(the Russian lawyer who briefly met with Jr at Trump tower), both the day before and the day after she met with Jr . To my knowlege Veselnitskaya has not been interviewed by the Mueller team.
This is so phony . Mueller punted on the Cohen case and handed it off the US 2nd district . That's because the stuff on Cohen has nothing to do with the election .

Let me get this right! Because Mueller passed what he found off to another jurisdiction it makes the case phony? Because he has yet to interview the players you think he should we should paint his handling of the case as phony? I think I would rather see where this investigation goes rather than assume without FACTS how a seasoned and practiced repub appointed prosecutor handles his case.

I find it amusing and fascinating that two years after The Dufus defeated Clinton we are trying to protect the shady characters that he has surrounded himself with over the years.

talaniman · Jul 28, 2018, 07:25 AM

Originally Posted by jlisenbe

Suppose Donald Jr. had met with the Russkies and received some very helpful information on Ms. Clinton. That would not be a crime. If they had given him money, that's a crime, but not information. We might not like that, but it is not illegal. As to perpetrating a fraud on the government of the United States, that's a pretty wild claim. Obstruction of justice? Maybe, but only if, as you said, Cohen is credible.

Receiving STOLEN goods is a crime. Whether you paid for it or NOT. Money doesn't have to be the form of that payment, as favors down the road count the same and Don Jr. alluded to what they wanted a repeal of the MANINSY ACT. He testified he never told his father, is that a lie? Might be. We will see. The whole Trump administration was warned they would be targeted for this type of actions by the Russians, so makes sense they would have reported it and not lied about these contacts, or work so hard to cover them up. Just saying.

As to Cohen's credibility, again we will have to see if Cohens assertions and testimony can be collaborated.

Look, is Trump a saint? Not even close, but the democrats who nominated Clinton have no room to point fingers. HC is the most corrupt politician in my lifetime with the possible exceptions of Nixon and her husband. Can I agree with a lot of the criticism of Trump? Sure. He has a big mouth and a terrible habit of just saying/tweeting things without thinking about what he is saying, so I have complaints myself. In this last election, we had the most awful selection of candidates I can imagine. If you want to criticize Trump, then go for it, but at least acknowledge that we would not have had a really moral person in office if HC had been elected. The truth is, they are birds of the same feather in more ways than most people care to admit.

I have no doubt repubs would have given Clinton the same hell as The Dufus had she won. The same hell they gave Obama, Bush, and all the rest. That's American politics amplified by the silly season of elections to see who retains power. Lets face it, silly season has grown with the advent of so many strides in telecommunications and the Internet, that one silly season follows another so closely that there are no breaks in between any more.

tomder55 · Jul 28, 2018, 08:22 AM

1 Steele did zero of the dossier work while employed by a repub
2 It is not up to the accused to disprove a charge
3 Mueller punted because Cohn's case has no relevance to his charge .
4 Mueller is a deep statist The party labels have no meaning . He's protecting his friend and the agency he once incompetently ran. (specific cases I've already documented )

jlisenbe · Jul 28, 2018, 09:11 AM

I have no doubt repubs would have given Clinton the same hell as The Dufus had she won. The same hell they gave Obama, Bush, and all the rest. That's American politics amplified by the silly season of elections to see who retains power. Lets face it, silly season has grown with the advent of so many strides in telecommunications and the Internet, that one silly season follows another so closely that there are no breaks in between any more.

Pretty accurate statement. Politics has become such a mean and ugly business. People of genuine character are becoming fewer and fewer. Meanwhile, we have passed 21 trillion in debt and are heading to 22 trillion. No one seems to notice or care. It's the great national cancer.

talaniman · Jul 28, 2018, 10:18 AM

1 Steele did zero of the dossier work while employed by a repub

Very true, but the FACT that Steele's work entailed roots in his prior network from years of experience doesn't make it a fraud since it was about DIRT on a political foe.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graph...=.187b42fad1d5

2 It is not up to the accused to disprove a charge

You better get a lot more specific with that one since innocent until proven guilty is about a court of law not political rock throwing. BIG difference. It's only a charge when law enforcement makes it one in pursuit of a case.

3 Mueller punted because Cohn's case has no relevance to his charge .

Or a better spin is it he uncovered enough evidence of criminal activity that he gave it to another LAW ENFORCEMENT agency as he FOCUSES his resources on the election, the task he was appointed too. Is it his fault The Dufus has so many criminals in his employ? Or YOUR fault for ignoring they were criminals BEFORE they were in the employment of the Dufus?

4 Mueller is a deep statist The party labels have no meaning . He's protecting his friend and the agency he once incompetently ran. (specific cases I've already documented)

Right from the mouth of the Dufus, your documented objections noted. Still The Dufus wanted him for HIS FBI director, until he was appointed special prosecutor.

https://www.cnn.com/2017/06/13/polit...iew/index.html

talaniman · Jul 28, 2018, 10:54 AM

Originally Posted by jlisenbe

Pretty accurate statement. Politics has become such a mean and ugly business. People of genuine character are becoming fewer and fewer. Meanwhile, we have passed 21 trillion in debt and are heading to 22 trillion. No one seems to notice or care. It's the great national cancer.

I think it's the people of NO character and their sheeple that have become louder and louder that distracts us from the much needed focus on what we should be doing as a nation, and HOW we should go about it. I admit to hunkering down and trying to weather this storm of stupidity. (Should that be hunkering down loudly?)

8D

jlisenbe · Jul 28, 2018, 11:43 AM

When you speak of those with "no character", I assume you are speaking of Hillary Clinton. While I generally support Mr. Trump, though frequently with a knot in my stomach, I can assure you I am no one's "sheeple". I voted for him because the alternative was completely awful. Any political party who nominated anyone as incompetent and corrupt as her has no room to point fingers.

Whose sheeple are the left-wing college and university students who riot to prevent people from speaking with whom they do not agree? Strangely, I do not notice conservative students doing that.

talaniman · Jul 28, 2018, 01:30 PM

You don't have to assume who I meant by those of NO character, it was as I specified.

"people of NO character and their sheeple that have become louder and louder that distracts us from the much needed focus on what we should be doing as a nation,"

No mention of loony right or left wingers. I am glad the guy you voted for turns your stomach, that's a good sign.