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leen321 · Feb 23, 2016, 01:46 PM

Hi: Can you install an above floor rough alcove tub the same as you would install an alcove tub?
Maybe my question should be is there any significant difference in an above floor rough alcove tube and just a tub that states alcove tub in the description?

ma0641 · Feb 23, 2016, 02:27 PM

"above floor rough alcove tub". My guess is you want to elevate the tub in the alcove? Yes, installed and plumbed the same way. Make sure you have adequate floor support for the elevated section. If this is an existing alcove, you will most likely have to change the plumbing heights too.

leen321 · Feb 23, 2016, 02:34 PM

Originally Posted by ma0641

"above floor rough alcove tub". My guess is you want to elevate the tub in the alcove? Yes, installed and plumbed the same way. Make sure you have adequate floor support for the elevated section. If this is an existing alcove, you will most likely have to change the plumbing heights too.

Okay... not sure how to address this with our general contractor who put in an above rough installalcove. He told me I bought the right tub ( I am no expert),
But when I stand in it, it kind of crackles and the seal next to the tile appears to have come loose a bit. He said it was just that all new tubs settle a bit. Not sure what to do. The bathroom is just a small bathroom in a ranch home without a basement but with a crawl space below. Thanks so much for your help.

ma0641 · Feb 23, 2016, 04:07 PM

Tubs don't settle, foundations do. He should have installed a ledger board along the rear wall of the tub to support that side. Crackling sound is probably the bedding under the tub. Steel tub? Cast Iron? Fiberglass? Since we don't know what was done, can't say much more.

leen321 · Feb 23, 2016, 05:55 PM

CThanks for your help. The tub is a steel tub and weighs around 80pounds. The only thing I know is that I have lived other homes with porcelain on steel tubs and never felt any movement under my feet. I am not sure what to think. I am not a big person.I bought this tub for my contractor. He told me to buy a 5 foot tub with a left hand drain and nothing else. I bought the New Solar by American Standard.He picked it up a week after I ordered it. I asked him if it was the right tub and he said yes. After it was installed and I stepped into the tub to clean the new tile surround I noticed a crackling/creaking noise. When I stepped out of the tub the new tile floor did the same and the caulking separated from the side of the tub. He told me this was all normal for a tub to settle and he was glad the caulking did not separate between the wall tile and the tub. He will be back to recaulk by the tub. I reviewed the tub again online and it states it is for a rough-in above floor alcove. I guess I saw the rough-in and thought I am looking at studs so that must be right, but now I think not as I do not think the tub is on the floor, but maybe above the floor. I told him that and he said it is the right tub, but I really am thinking it is not. Thanks for your help. I hesitate to fill this tub with water.

hkstroud · Feb 23, 2016, 06:13 PM

He told me this was all normal

That is pure BS.

Sounds like the flooring and sub-flooring is inadequate for this type of tub. If the tile moves from you just standing in the tub the flooring must really be weak. Did he do the flooring?

leen321 · Feb 23, 2016, 06:31 PM

No. It was a complete bathroom remodel. He took out the one piece fiberglass tub/shower combo, the vinyl flooring and the cabinets. Put in new everything. I could see the studs because he put a special board to put wall tile. The tub only weighs 80 pounds but if it is an above the floor tub I guess it is not even actually sitting on the floor. I have reviewed and reviewed the american standard guide and it seems it is off. I would think our flooring would be good as the house is only 15 years old with no leaks. I agree with you about the 'pure bs'. He did put down a sheet of some sort of board before he laid the floor tile. I do not know, but I just have this feeling it is just plain wrong from the type of tub being an above the floor tub, to him not knowing... do not think I should be the one to know, to the install. Thanks for listening. I still think that if he has to come back to repeatedly put in caulk.. it is not right. Maybe I was wrong to buy the wrong type of tub, but he should have known and refused it at the store and ordered a correct tub. I think he was in a hurry, but I do not want to end up in the crawl space. Or like you said, maybe the flooring was not adequate, but as a general contractor he should have known that too. Thanks again. I will keep you posted. The bathroom is beautiful, but if it is not safe... that means nothing.

hkstroud · Feb 23, 2016, 07:05 PM

The bathroom is beautiful, but if it is not safe... that means nothing.

That is very correct.
If the floor moves with just you in the tub think of what it will do when filled with water.
Don't know what the sub floor was but he should have known whether or not it was adequate. This is his problem.
Your position should be "A tub that moves is not satisfactory"

He screwed up, it is his problem.

If your floor joist are I-joist, as shown below, the floors tend to be a bit bouncy. The I-joist are very strong but tend to flex. That is because the bottom edge can flex to one side when the weight changes. If the tub is parallel to the floor joist it is probably sitting on only two joist. That could cause a lot of flex and movement.

He may be able to help things by bracing between the joist with blocking about every 16 inches. He should be trying to figure out why the movement is occurring and how to fix, it not handing you BS.

leen321 · Feb 23, 2016, 07:11 PM

Originally Posted by hkstroud

That is very correct.
If the floor moves with just you in the tub think of what it will do when filled with water.
Don't know what the sub floor was but he should have known whether or not it was adequate. This is his problem.
Your position should be "A tub that moves is not satisfactory"

He screwed up, it is his problem.

Even though I picked out the tub?

hkstroud · Feb 23, 2016, 07:26 PM

Yes. He should know if it would work or what he had to do to make it work, before he put it in.

hkstroud · Feb 23, 2016, 07:36 PM

When you walk across your living room floor, does your floor feel a little springy as compared to your best friends floors?

leen321 · Feb 23, 2016, 08:19 PM

There are a few places in the house.. Most of the house is hardwood... one squeak under kitchen table. Family room and kitchen... no problemLittle den across from bathroom... a couple squeaks in the doorway. Different from the bath tub... these are more like old floors squeaking.. not surenever any in the bathroom with the new tub.

massplumber2008 · Feb 23, 2016, 08:34 PM

Whenever I install a porcelain on steel tub, heck, whenever I install any tub, I am sure to always install a ledger board (as mentioned by Hkstroud) and then install the tub into a bed of structolite plaster or whatever bedding substrate the manufacturer requires (if any).

In your case, I think a careful look at the proper installation requirements for your particular tub are in order. Here, simply contact American Standard at:

American Standard

Tell them the model number (or e-mail a picture) and have them e-mail proper installation literature. Read the literature and then post back with any questions or further concerns, OK?

Mark

leen321 · Feb 23, 2016, 09:17 PM

Originally Posted by massplumber2008

Whenever I install a porcelain on steel tub, heck, whenever I install any tub, I am sure to always install a ledger board (as mentioned by Hkstroud) and then install the tub into a bed of structolite plaster or whatever bedding substrate the manufacturer requires (if any).

In your case, I think a careful look at the proper installation requirements for your particular tub are in order. Here, simply contact American Standard at:

American Standard

Tell them the model number (or e-mail a picture) and have them e-mail proper installation literature. Read the literature and then post back with any questions or further concerns, OK?

Mark

Thanks mark. I will do that and also I am goingi to contact my general contractor.

SHEPLMBR70 · Feb 24, 2016, 04:40 AM

Yes a ledger board should have been installed, but most tubs now come in above the floor rough in. To compensate for this, American Standard installs thick Styrofoam supports underneath of their tubs. I sell these on a daily bases, as well as I used to install them. Ask him if he installed the ledger board. It may be the Styrofoam you are hearing. They have done this to reduce the amount of flooring that needs to be cut for the waste and overflow. Many plumbers have mixed reviews on the idea. But it's just about all manufacturers, not just American Standard.

leen321 · Feb 25, 2016, 11:50 AM

Originally Posted by SHEPLMBR70

Yes a ledger board should have been installed, but most tubs now come in above the floor rough in. To compensate for this, American Standard installs thick Styrofoam supports underneath of their tubs. I sell these on a daily bases, as well as I used to install them. Ask him if he installed the ledger board. It may be the Styrofoam you are hearing. They have done this to reduce the amount of flooring that needs to be cut for the waste and overflow. Many plumbers have mixed reviews on the idea. But it's just about all manufacturers, not just American Standard.

American Standard was of no help when I called them. When the big box store called american standard they said do not use the tub.

When I talked with American Standard I was told that tub would be right and that I should run water in the tub and let it sit and see if it settles and the crackles go away.. She did mention a cement base to sit the tub on and wondered if I had that done. I do not think that was done, because contractor told me there was a styrofoam pad. I do know he had to change some of the plumbing, but still says it was right tub. I also learned that rough-in has to do with the piping and not the actual alcove construction, which would be my mistake because I though rough-in meant the studs and I could see the studs.
I am not sure what to do. She also said most tubs are above floor rough in tubs, which I replied I do not see that in the descriptions of the other tubs.

hkstroud · Feb 25, 2016, 10:50 PM

Fill the tub with water. Let it sit for a day and see if that compresses the Styrofoam and the movement stops. Begining to sound like he got the ledger boards to low.

SHEPLMBR70 · Mar 3, 2016, 07:23 AM

Mortar mix under tub would help support it too.

leen321 · Mar 10, 2016, 10:07 AM

UPDATE: First of all thank you everyone for helping with this issue. I did fill the bathtub with water and it crackled a bit. We had guests over the weekend and they hadno problem, so it appears that it just needed to settle. I now believe that the tub should have had the mortar mix or some sort of cement base besides the styrofoam but feel it will be okay. Thanks again... Same with the new shower pan in the master.

Now I am dealing with a new find in the laundry room... I look up and there is a nail popping through about every 18 inches just below the ceiling, the length of the wall which has a door in the middle going to the garage. The contractor updated the venting on the roof (to meet current code) so I guess maybe something was jarred in the attic... Who knows? Any ideas? I think it is time for me to rent! :)

massplumber2008 · Mar 10, 2016, 02:07 PM

Who knows? Any ideas?

Get used to it... *smile*