[LLPAYNE]

My brother is an idiot who did not have our tenants sign a lease. Me and him co-own this house and he "managed" everything for the first 4.5 years. I took over the last about 6 months and now the tenants have moved out.First they do fess up to throwing out our wicker 4 PC set. Tenant claims "normal wear and tear" because it is "outdoor furniture" and it has rotted because of the elements of being "outdoor furniture". When they moved in it was in good condition, old, but good and with new paint. It was on a COVERED porch so not sure if "normal wear and tear" covers that, either way they did not have our permission to throw it out. I am also not even sure natural wicker is considered outdoor furniture because it is not made to withstand the elements. My grandmother probably owned this furniture and kept it on that porch for 40+ years with minimal damage to the legs.It will be about $400 of damage if I do most the work myself besides professional carpet cleaning. Carpet replaced in about 1/3 of house may not even be salvaged, and is only maybe 3 years old.They were late on their last 2 months of rent so they asked if they could pay it all at once. I said OK and low and behold, they took out the deposit from the total. Told the tenant they had to pay full amount rent then I would give them their deposit back if the house was in good condition, just normal wear and tear. No deposit and they just say they can pay us what they owe.They have painted the wood paneling, the fireplace brick, and wood cabinets without permission. I cannot return these to original condition so painting over them and doing it the RIGHT way with sanding and primer seem like a good option. Any suggestions on how to handle this would be great. They also moved the water heater in the kitchen. It was small and compact, now a large water heater sits in the laundry area with pipes along the wall. So, tenants decide to add a dishwasher. How convenient right? They add a counter to cover the dishwasher and take out the dishwasher when they move (which they said they would leave since they did without permission). The only thing holding up the counting now is a piece of wood they propped it up with. Can a dishwasher hold weight? I thought a dishwasher went into a framed space. If that is the case, not sure how I can remedy that unless by a professional.They also owe for half of January. They pay on the 15th and their rent receipts have always said rent is paid 15th-15th of the next month, paying rent AFTER living there. Ex December rent runs from the 15th of Nov to Dec 15. Tenant says he pays the 15th and that covers the whole month so he refuses to pay the 15th to the 30th of January. Even after I gave extra time to move out.This has become a shiz storm. I know I won't make these mistakes again and will probably sell the house before renting it again. If I do rent, I will make use of a property manager as I am not if I will be in the area because I need to start my career.These people make very little money, so suing them may be out of the question. I do not think I would have a very solid case without a lease. The damage pictures I only have "during" and after pics from their social media. These are very difficult people so I am sure they will argue about every little thing I deduct from their deposit amount. Them taking out the deposit has given them an upper hand to complain about what is owed.Any advice would be great on how to handle this situation. If I have to take my losses I will. It has been a lesson learned, that's for sure!

[joypulv]

I suggest that you take your losses, because even if you win in court, they probably won't pay. That means court again, and finally paying a sheriff. Not worth it.

You are just as culpable as your co-owner brother. You and he should have sat down together to learn about leases and state laws and so on. You are luckier than many landlords who have to evict with no rent for months.

As for dishwashers, they can hold up a counter, but do best with a panel at one end, because they often don't go all the way back to the wall, and you don't want anyone standing on one to get at the top of a wall cabinet. If it's the end of the row, you want a panel anyway for appearances, and if a fridge is next, you want a buffer against heat. If there is room for a simple rectangle made out of 2 x 3's attached to the floor and the wall, you are all set.

You got a hot water heater out of the deal? "Small and compact" sounds like 20 gallons, and they put in a 40 or 50 gallon, a more typical size?

If brick, cabinets, and paneling are painted white, and done smoothly, you may find it more attractive to tenants these days. People like open and light and bright.

Laminate flooring (the fake wood kind) can be really cheap on sale, like 70 cents a square foot, and a better material for tenants. Installation however requires a very flat subfloor.

My sister rents her old condo to students, and requires co-signed leases with parents, and direct deposit of rent into her bank.

Lots to learn. Never ends.

[LLPAYNE]

I suggest that you take your losses, because even if you win in court, they probably won't pay. That means court again, and finally paying a sheriff. Not worth it.

You are just as culpable as your co-owner brother. You and he should have sat down together to learn about leases and state laws and so on. You are luckier than many landlords who have to evict with no rent for months.

As for dishwashers, they can hold up a counter, but do best with a panel at one end, because they often don't go all the way back to the wall, and you don't want anyone standing on one to get at the top of a wall cabinet. If it's the end of the row, you want a panel anyway for appearances, and if a fridge is next, you want a buffer against heat.

Thanks for your time and advice. My brother had them moved in before I knew about it. I tried to have them sign a lease after the fact, and they refused. It has been a hard and costly lesson to learn I hope some reading this will learn from it.
I will try to get them to pay full deposit, but we will see if that happens. It is so hard to do anything without everything expressed in writing. Damages will be covered by state housing laws at least, so I may be able to get the deposit back. That is better than nothing.

[LLPAYNE]

Thanks for your time and advice. My brother had them moved in before I knew about it. I tried to have them sign a lease after the fact, and they refused. It has been a hard and costly lesson to learn I hope some reading this will learn from it.
I will try to get them to pay full deposit, but we will see if that happens. It is so hard to do anything without everything expressed in writing. Damages will be covered by state housing laws at least, so I may be able to get the deposit back. That is better than nothing.

I should say the water heater was paid by for us. It was moved to a new spot which makes no sense. It is in plain sight with about 10 feet of cheap looking pipe running along the wall. LOL so no one will want to rent or buy with that. If you tapped the pipes, it would probably break. I doubt the new one has any more capacity than the other one. It is taller and slimmer, sitting in an area where most people would put a TV.

The cabinets are not done smoothly/professionally nor the fireplace. I will have to sand, prime, and paint them over. Gray cabinets, bright green walls, white fireplace. Oh man, it looks awful lol. They even left some of the painters tape for 6 months after painting.

It is a house from 1904 so some floors are not perfectly flat. I think laminate or tile would make sense anyway. Who wants a carpet kitchen?

[joypulv]

Yes, law says they can't use deposits as rent, but winning in court and getting paid are two different things. So then you are out the filing fee too, and the time.
(The laminate I mentioned is plank fake wood flooring, not vinyl. The other kind of wood flooring that isn't solid is called engineered, and has a top layer of real wood. But for a house that old, I would put vinyl in the kitchen over a substrate of thickness of 1/8 or 1/4" according to how bad the original floor is. And carpet elsewhere again.)

[Fr_Chuck]

You can sue them, and if they work, could be able to garnish their wages.

That is a personal choice, we always do, on you rental houses, but then they do not move one box in, tell all paper work is signed either, And you get last month rent and deposit paid.

[joypulv]

Warning: garnishing wages is a long, many step, expensive process.

[ScottGem]

I would first total up the damages to the property, lost rental, etc. See if the amount comes within your local small claims court guidelines. If it does then I would sue them. It sounds like they owe you a few thousand dollars. For that amount and the low cost of small claims court, its worth the effort. Even if you don't collect, you will have the satisfaction of ruining their credit (if that hasn't happened already).

For the future. Get a standard lease template and do not allow anyone to move in until they have signed a lease. Get a tenant's application form, join a landlord's association who can help you do credit checks. Do one on any prospective tenant.

[ma0641]

Big issue here is no lease, no written and signed do's and don'ts. Evict them now and remember what happened so as to not have it happen again. Make sure to do a credit check before, my neighbor, with 9 rental houses had great success with up front checks, not just getting money.