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Linshkt · Feb 12, 2015, 03:46 PM

My husband got a ticket for failure to keep the vehicle under control. We are trying to figure out if we should fight this or not! In Wisconsin. Here is the details... He was working driving his companies semi on icy roads in 25-35 mph winds with an empty trailer. He was going between 10-15 mph under the speed limit. So he was not speeding. His EMPTY trailer has the side skirting below as well. So the trailer is like a brick wall against the wind. Anyway we come over an overpass and next thing we know the trailer kicks out and takes us in the tractor fishtailing all over the road. He tried his best to get it under control but the whole road was nothing but black ice! Trailer jack knifed and sent us down the side of the ditch (which was a 25-30 foot ditch on the way down!) how my husband managed to keep us from not rolling over is beyond me!

Anyway. Officers arrive shortly after calling 911... Came down ditch to make sure we were OK and asked what happened. Told him we came over overpass and trailer slid on the black ice and made us go in the ditch. Officer joked and said its not slippery up there. He got our info and went back to his car. A couple minutes later officer took off with his lights on... Comes back a little later and comes back down ditch by us and offers for us to go and sit in his squad car to get out of the cold. And told us he had to go and stop a car that just about hit the squad car from sliding on the ice.

Then miraculously we see 2 if not more I don't remember salt trucks come through real slow. Anyway couple hours later tow trucks arrive to haul the semi out and the tow truck drivers said we should never have been out on these roads in this weather with an empty trailer. You're just looking for trouble. So anyway just before leaving the scene officer comes back down and hands my husband the $221 citation for failure to keep vehicle under control. There was nothing he could do once that trailer started sliding on us! Is it worth trying to fight this in court!?

catonsville · Feb 12, 2015, 03:56 PM

Nothing ventured, nothing gained. If your story is truthful and honest particularly about the salt trucks then yes, I would go to court and fight it. Also, it would depend on how the officer acted. Like was he ready to nail your butt to the truck? What is the worst that could happen if you go to court and lose?

Wondergirl · Feb 12, 2015, 03:58 PM

Overpasses and bridges are notorious for black ice. I'd go to court and fight it. The same thing happened to me but with my car. I was able to explain to the judge what had happened, and the ticket was dismissed. Good luck!

CravenMorhead · Feb 12, 2015, 04:17 PM

Not trying to be snarky but was there a way that, through driving skills that your husband may not have, this could have been avoided? The reason why I ask this is that if I just got my license and started driving, skidded on ice and crashed my car I would deserve that ticket. If I, as experienced as I am now with 10 years under my belt, approached that same stretch of road I would drive differently and it wouldn't end up as a crash.

Regardless I would fight this ticket. It seems like the officer needed a reason to justify how long he was there and that ticket could be the reason. He could have also been taught that if there was an accident then there has to be fault someone, single vehicle means that driver. The problem is that implies fault if it was a faultless crash, i.e. weather. When you go to court there is a chance he won't show up, if he doesn't then the ticket will be thrown out, but if he does and you explain it as you did here then you should be able to get it thrown out.

Something that could play into your decision, in the time off that would be required to fight this, will you lose more money in lost wages then the ticket is worth? Would the demerits that come with the ticket put you over the edge for something?

ScottGem · Feb 12, 2015, 05:15 PM

got a ticket for failure to keep the vehicle under control

I'm confused. Did he not lose control of the vehicle? That is exactly what you are describing. It does not matter that road conditions contributed to the loss of control. It does not matter that other vehicles also lost control. It does not matter that that there salt trucks going slowly. The fact is that he lost control. I'm just not understanding how you think you can fight it. Maybe if the citation was for something else...

On the other hand, I'm not sure that you can lose anything by fighting it. But given the nature of the citation and the facts I can't see how you can win.

catonsville · Feb 12, 2015, 05:21 PM

To the OP, be sure to let us know how you plan to go and give us the results. Thanks.

catonsville · Feb 12, 2015, 05:29 PM

Originally Posted by ScottGem

I'm confused. Did he not lose control of the vehicle? That is exactly what you are describing. It does not matter that road conditions contributed to the loss of control. It does not matter that other vehicles also lost control. It does not matter that that there salt trucks going slowly. The fact is that he lost control. I'm just not understanding how you think you can fight it. Maybe if the citation was for something else...

On the other hand, I'm not sure that you can lose anything by fighting it. But given the nature of the citation and the facts I can't see how you can win.

Scott, what you have said, it makes me think along this line. Losing control of one's vehicle is a way for the authorities to make you pay for the officers time. Catch 22 of Law Enforcement.

ScottGem · Feb 12, 2015, 05:50 PM

That could be. My daughter was caught in a similar situation. She spun out on a snowy ramp in Buffalo and was also cited for failure to control. Traffic laws feel that you should drive carefully enough so no matter what the road conditions you will be safe. While they have someone what of a point, there are just times that doesn't work.

DoulaLC · Feb 12, 2015, 06:07 PM

Ultimately he did fail to control the vehicle, regardless of the conditions. They could always say he was driving too fast for the conditions as well, even if he had been driving 20 mph. That can be used in many circumstances.

Do you happen to know if your husband has any points on his CDL already? You may want to consider contacting a referral service to put you in touch with an attorney who knows the area you received the citation in and is familiar with working with truck drivers. It won't cost you anything for them to let you know if you would be better off just paying it, even though he'll have points added, or if you have a decent chance of having it squashed or at least reduced, or even better, no points given.

If you go with an attorney, they will let you know the cost. Sometimes it can be worth paying a bit more to avoid having points on your license.His company should have information on the services or you can check the truck papers as they always have them. Some are more well known than others. Also, are you long haul drivers or local? An attorney can go to court for you, which is often better anyway, whether you are in the area or not.

Cant hurt to make a few phone calls and get all of your options.

Just for future reference, if he ever feels conditions could be questionable, empty trailer, windy, icy roads, he can always call dispatch and explain why he's going to pull off.

Please do let us know what you decide and how things go.

talaniman · Feb 12, 2015, 08:07 PM

Of course you contest it. You have nothing to lose and a lot to gain.

ballengerb1 · Feb 12, 2015, 08:54 PM

From my experience with taffic tickets you can be going 5 MPH and if you slide off the road they will contend you were going too fast for those particular conditions.

ScottGem · Feb 13, 2015, 06:13 AM

Originally Posted by talaniman

Of course you contest it. You have nothing to lose and a lot to gain.

I don't know about that. Its possible the fine could be increased.

AK lawyer · Feb 13, 2015, 09:06 AM

... and the tow truck drivers said we should never have been out on these roads in this weather with an empty trailer. ...

That is your answer, in my opinion. If the weather was that bad, it appears that the only way to keep the vehicle under control was to park it. And that is what he should have done.

Linshkt · Feb 13, 2015, 01:20 PM

Originally Posted by AK lawyer

That is your answer, in my opinion. If the weather was that bad, it appears that the only way to keep the vehicle under control was to park it. And that is what he should have done.

He is a local driver. His company pushes and pushes. On the plus side he did not lose his job. And we have had numerous bad weather conditions since this and he has told them he was turning around. They keep telling him just keep going further and see how it is. But now he refuses. He did not want to go out this day to begin with but his job kept telling him we have many other drivers out there and they all have said its fine out there!

DoulaLC · Feb 13, 2015, 01:54 PM

Originally Posted by Linshkt

He is a local driver. His company pushes and pushes. On the plus side he did not lose his job. And we have had numerous bad weather conditions since this and he has told them he was turning around. They keep telling him just keep going further and see how it is. But now he refuses. He did not want to go out this day to begin with but his job kept telling him we have many other drivers out there and they all have said its fine out there!

Unfortunately, as a company driver, that is often the case. Some companies are more understanding than others. Time is money, and when loads are held up, it costs... not just money, but it can with reputation as well. Good for him to speak up about not making a run. If more drivers did, you would have fewer companies push, or at least they would take the situation into consideration.

Again, suggest he speak to someone in drivers' relations at his work or check out a truck paper for a referral. He might also want to find out what the company's take is on how many is too many points on a license. That may give him something to consider when deciding his next step.

Good luck with it! Stay safe out there!

Linshkt · Feb 18, 2015, 01:36 PM

Originally Posted by DoulaLC

Unfortunately, as a company driver, that is often the case. Some companies are more understanding than others. Time is money, and when loads are held up, it costs... not just money, but it can with reputation as well. Good for him to speak up about not making a run. If more drivers did, you would have fewer companies push, or at least they would take the situation into consideration.

Again, suggest he speak to someone in drivers' relations at his work or check out a truck paper for a referral. He might also want to find out what the company's take is on how many is too many points on a license. That may give him something to consider when deciding his next step.

Good luck with it! Stay safe out there!

Well we went to court yesturday to plead Not Guilty and we won! Ticket was dismissed! We did not even have to explain anything! DA looked at the notes from the officer and went and grabbed the statute book and read the statute that he was charged with and said there is no way with your semi that the county would have enough burden of proof to prove this! :)

CravenMorhead · Feb 18, 2015, 01:50 PM

Congratulations!

catonsville · Feb 18, 2015, 01:52 PM

Originally Posted by Linshkt

Well we went to court yesturday to plead Not Guilty and we won! Ticket was dismissed! We did not even have to explain anything! DA looked at the notes from the officer and went and grabbed the statute book and read the statute that he was charged with and said there is no way with your semi that the county would have enough burden of proof to prove this! :)

Great news. Shame the Officer didn't have the where with all to do the same thing
and save you and the court time and money.

DoulaLC · Feb 18, 2015, 04:39 PM

Glad to hear it turned out well for you.

ScottGem · Feb 18, 2015, 05:46 PM

I'm glad too. Very surprised but glad.