[talaniman]

I have guided many through probation and while you have rights you are fighting the wrong battle, the wrong way. The very process of probation means you have CHOSEN to forego the court proceedings and consequences of what you have been charged with and agreed to a lesser charge and your freedom is contingent on going through the probation process. Not use this to relitigate your innocence on the charges, that should have been done with a simple NOT guilty plea in the first place and a trial would have been held.

All of that goes out the window when YOU agreed to a plea, and the probation that follows. Foolish indeed was the choice to refuse to answer possible violations and worse to give this long narrative of your rights and innocence instead of addressing the specifics of the violations themselves which you still have NOT revealed here or addressed and that's the issue NOT your personal interactions with an officer of the court.

In short, it doesn't matter what your rights are or how you exercise them since you have agreed to the process of mitigating the ORIGINAL charges with the probation process and subjected yourself to a level of compliance which I am positive your attorney has told you to get through in good faith.

Continue down this road, you will fail your probation because of your foolish way you exercise your rights. Bottom line is you waived your rights to a proper trial of guilt, or innocence and took the route of court ordered compliance for your freedom and accepting a lesser charge. The time to exercise your rights was before the plea and probation AGREEMENT, NOT after when compliance is what's REQUIRED.

I will tell you the same thing I tell other probationers, a hard head makes a soft a$$, so go back and read your agreement with the court, and explain why you CANNOT comply with it. I don't know what you are trying to accomplish with documenting these proceedings now, but clearly you need to change your tactics from defending your rights to full compliance of the law, and I hope you see and understand the difference, because that my friend is what you signed up for.

Your focus should be fully on why you cannot comply, and that's the only issue before you.

[J_9]

Now that you have had time to reflect on your bad behavior here, this thread will be re-opened.

[talaniman]

Thank you J, I will take this opportunity to share this PM that was sent to me since the thread was closed,

You may think the only way I should proceed is to suck it up and push forward and not try and voice what is right on anything. You, sir, lack the knowledge of a Post Conviction Relief appeal, which comes in place of a not guilty plea. At the time of my incarceration, before I continued what was then pre-law education, I was given an attorney that used to date my attacker. He told me none of my evidence could be used. Feeling that I was being given a scenario I couldn't fight out of, I took the plea to find an attorney that wasn't working for the family of my attacker. I didn't take the plea deal because I had done anything wrong. A couple months later I brought every bit of evidence to the matter TO my PO. He told me he would help me, and that he couldn't believe it, I had told the truth. A couple days later, one of his supervisors (he's a new PO, but former FSU officer) must've stepped on his toes or something, and he gave a violation for it that even the judge herself believed I didn't deserve. I told her that the result of court that day did non seem non-punitive as mentioned by the then-representing defender. She told me she fully believed I had done the right thing.

Sir, until the judge has ruled in YOUR favor, you are still held to the probation procedure you agreed too. However I fail to understand why you even submitted such a question knowing good and damn well you submit ALL your evidence and concerns to your lawyer and let HIM advise you.

Thank you any and all who can shed light!

That's the question you asked, and that's what you got from what you have written despite your total over reaction to the answers you got. It doesn't matter what your issues are SIR, or why you fight and NOT just rollover, as you accuse us here of telling you, fact is we DON'T have all your first hand information.

If everyone is on your side why are you videotaping officials in the first place? That action alone put everyone on the defensive for future legal actions by YOU, and skews the way they view your case, RIGHT, or WRONG. Regardless a judge will make the final decision, not us.

I stand by my original advice to handle the terms of your probation by the rules, as again, a judge will make the final rules regarding any violations. Good luck with your appeal, and that attitude.

Hope that shed some light for you, and sorry I do NOT agree with your actions, or how you handle yourself. Small wonder you are having troubles with this situation, so do as your lawyer advises.

You have a right to stand up for yourself, but you cannot control the opinions of others, or the outcomes of such actions.

[J_9]

I shall add the PM I got as well.

I asked the question to see what people knew about current audio/video recordings and anything that could help me in terms of being in his office. I'm not unwilling to listen to reason. I have logical answers for all the questions and ideas proposed to me that nobody likes. If I planned on just letting the abusive woman who made all this happen in the first place, and the corrupt cops that falsified evidence, I would never have come to ask anything on a forum.

The public defender I got at the time of incarceration when I continued what was at the time a pre-law education, my attacker claimed multiple times used to date her mother. Her mother who I'd never heard from the entire time of knowing the attacker herself, called me 5 minutes before they arrested me and let the attacker go. I personally know she mistreats her son physically and sexually and she has another kid on the way. I had to witness it for too long to do as everybody suggests and not try. My PO knows I am innocent. He also recently destroyed an audio recording of mine that wasn't illegally recorded. Another P.O. was charged for that, in the last year. He will just become a part of Post Conviction Relief. Tell me the only thing I can do is move forward easy-going, I say PCR. I'm not at a dead end and don't have to stick with the plea I took.

If your court appointed attorney dated your attacker (your PM to Tal) or her mother (your PM to me), you had the right to request a change of defense. Being "pre-law," you should have known that.

You do have the right to stand up for yourself, but there is a right way and a wrong way to do that. You are clearly doing it the wrong way.

[talaniman]

LOL, that's what happens when you date a loony NUT from a loony family... TROUBLE. Complicated drama and TROUBLE.

[J_9]

Freedom of press gives me the right to record anything as long as it doesn't make me an accomplice to a crime by doing it.

Are you a member of the press? Are you attempting to write an article for a local newspaper? Or perhaps use your recording for a newscast? If the answer to any of these questions is "NO," you cannot use freedom of the press as a defense.

If you were pre-law, you should have known this too.

[upintheskyguy420man]

You should know that courts all over have turned from such thinking. The line between being a "member" of the press has vanished in this world where passers-by with their cell-phone or other digital media device record most events before "members" of the press arrive. To answer your question, I don't have "credentials" from some organization that make it okay to use my phone. I use my phone when it makes sense and when documentation seems like a good idea. I haven't freely distributed what I've recorded. I only plan to use it as evidence, or to show a pattern or the truth of my version of events.

[upintheskyguy420man]

My answer to all of your questions Mr J is "NO." I'm just looking to do the right thing here. Honestly. I am willing to sacrifice my freedom for the short term, as I don't have a terribly long sentence. But I am abiding the law, complying with it. I'm not using what I've recorded to slander or defame anyone. In the name of saving others from a fate like mine.

I didn't expect anyone here to find me a contingency lawyer that does this stuff all the time and expects nothing upfront, and drive me to his office. My intolerance and attitude only comes with the fact that nobody here has the power to throw me in jail just for strongly disagreeing with them or poking at them when their answer is so farfetched, the way my PO does, and I hadn't believed the only advice given would be to let everything go and live. I've heard that from many people. Those people have never had to deal with the kinds of things I deal with on a daily basis. And as I've said, I was compliant for approximately a year until what was said between my attorney and myself was told is still his business. No lawyer in his right mind would tell me I have to repeat what is said between us to my probation officer, or that it's a bad idea or I should "prepare to go to jail" for not telling him.

[J_9]

My answer to all of your questions Mr J

Who is Mr J? I am a woman. A female. An intellectual WOMAN who has more of a background in law than you apparently do.

Your intolerance and your attitude (your words) are what is going to get you in trouble. You are correct. We don't have the power to throw you into jail, but your PO does.

I will agree that there is attorney/client privilege. That's no secret. Your PO even knows that. Your PO is trying to push you, and you are pushing back. That is what he is trying to do and you are falling for it.

Stop being such a belligerent a-hole. Comply without being rude, if you are able.

You kill more flies with honey than you do with vinegar.

Mr. Devon, you don't get it do you? They are trying to push you and you are falling into their trap. You are doing exactly what they want you to do.

Maybe you need to think outside of the box for once, if you are capable. They WANT to violate you and you are pushing them to do just that. Stop being such a testosterone filled jerk, and try abiding by the rules set out for you.

[talaniman]

Let us know how your way works for ya why don't you. I thought the goal was to get off probation and be free to better yourself and learn to make better decision to stay the freak out of the criminal justice system. I wish you much luck.

[upintheskyguy420man]

It is easy enough to say "you took the plea." The only ones who are not on my side are officials, exception being the judge who has overseen the proceedings thus far. It is right that I could have asked for a change in defense at the time. The attorney represented me in the past, I remember him telling me once before that there was no reason he could see that such a request would be granted. He was pushing to stay on my case and work in favor of my attacker. I had just been hit with a hammer. As it may show here, for better or worse, I often think quickly and precisely. Yet, at this time, I was very very impaired. I lost good chunks of memory for months. I let my P.O. know that I was innocent, but also told him (putting his mind at ease, as was said by someone here) that I didn't at all plan to disobey my probation or act like I wasn't responsible for it. And made good on that. Got a job, was going to the classes for abusive men they wanted me to take, despite being the victim of the crime. Participating, learning, and letting him know that despite any false causes leading me to where I am, I was learning something from them.

One day I came in, and he asked me if I'd seen the one who hit me again or she had talked to me. I had ever-previously told him no. But this time I went beat-red and told him that she had, again, been sending violent and threatening messages and trying to control me. That I had evidence of that and what happened before. He came to my house and listened to an audio recording of the attacker saying "it was the quickest decision I ever made .. I just grabbed it off the fridge ... and darted down the stairs ..... I mean, like, I heard it strike your skull. It was loud." I showed him messages later where, if I didn't bend to her whim, she'd say "I barely tapped you with the hammer" and "if I wanted revenge you'd be dead" and "if I wanted to cause you the pain you've caused me it would have been a worse blow and multiple blows." The woman I speak of was and is completely loco.

My PO told me he couldn't believe it, I was telling the truth, and he was going to help me out. That she would get the bad end of the stick this time, and not to worry about it, that he was glad I came forward with this.

She had a PO herself when she hit me with that hammer. She was on probation also for having assaulted me prior to that event. Many of you will just think "why did you stick around for any of this." Easy to say when the fear of everything wasn't instilled in you so constantly. She would tell me she was going to kill herself and her kid if I didn't show up at her door, and I'd say I've never met a better actress but a lot of the time she wasn't acting. Once cut herself in the kitchen of a small apartment really deep and I watched in horror as she reveled in whatever feeling it was that she got from it, ignorant to her 2.5 year old son playing with the streaming blood now forming a circle on the floor beside her.

When you've seen such things, to lose freedom for a while but remove a felony and right injustices of that level seem like a small consequence. I would "take it to my lawyer" but as I said before, they are skeptics like you all, and if I couldn't convince any one of you that my cause was just until now, how am I to do it in 30 (maybe an hour if I'm lucky) minutes of free consultation with any lawyer who would be tempted to poke more holes in my story before it's finished or made entirely known? I may be smart, but I'm not loaded. Without a contingency lawyer I may as well be doing this on my own.

[J_9]

You should know that courts all over have turned from such thinking. The line between being a "member" of the press has vanished in this world where passers-by with their cell-phone or other digital media device record most events

That still does not account for "Freedom of the Press." As a pre-law student, you should know that.

Apparently I know more about the law that you, as a pre-law student does and I have not been a part of the legal system for 12 years now.

[upintheskyguy420man]

I'm not going to some event that requires a press pass. I'm going through my day-to-day.

Doesn't 12 years ago seem a little outdated for this conversation? 12 years ago the small bond-type cameras that many would try and use to secretly record were the reason for the laws in place. Today everyone has a camera and if you hold it openly in front of you there should be no reason video isn't admissible without participation in crime, no reason audio with the right consent. I can't find any site to show that VT is anything but a one-party consent state. And I didn't stand there silent while I was recording. The one party is you, but you have to be a part of the conversation too, in an audio recording, and if that is true, you need not tell the other person.

Didn't I also mention somewhere earlier that I found (after the this post started getting so deep) a grievance on another P.O. I had 3 years ago. One where the resolution stated that I wanted to talk to prisoners rights and that I wanted to be able to record my PO any time I was in his office. The head of probation and parole timestamped it with a PnP timestamp and signed it, even put a case # on it. This was a grievance #3 form by the way. His own words stated "there is nothing stopping you from recording your P.O."

You may very well know more than myself about law. I don't claim to have everything entirely understood, or I wouldn't have ever jumped into my keyboard. But I think those details could change things up a bit too. As it goes. I wasn't an A-hole a Probation and Parole, yet I did ask to record him. Someone told me not to make him feel even a degree of threat to him. He already feels that way. If he is truly out to get me, as you all say, and nothing will change that, my only option is to try and document my own works of good, progress of my conditions, and nature of interactions at probation and parole. These things would be all that would save me.

The goal is to reveal the injustice of the justice system without being oppressive. My story speaks for itself. I may have been rude here. I wasn't rude at all to my P.O. Not then, not a week ago, not now. I was forthcoming and honest and friendly. I dropped the forthcoming part as it would pertain to how I plead in court. The friendly and honest and compliant has all remained, and the forthcoming where it concerns job opportunities, program attendance, social interaction, and all the other things that matter to completing a probation sentence I don't agree with but don't do nothing for just because of my disagreement. I have been respectful.

He wanted to know what my attorney said. He pressured me into answering and the answer was to plead not guilty to his violation. From that point on he has treated me much differently. I tried to tell him that it was the business of myself and my attorney because I knew he wouldn't like the answer. I tried to explain why her suggestion made sense, being that I disagreed and was fighting (via Vacate Plea) against the original charges that gave me restrictions to being around her, it would be contradictory to plead guilty to his violation. He was still made and said he "just don't get why ya gotta do that."

Being calm, honest, forthcoming, any of the good qualities I've listed aren't going to change that since that day he's had a twitch in his eye, and been very unpleasant to see. I keep my good demeanor around him, but I feel if I don't record or try, it will ONLY then be my fault if I go to jail and can't do anything about it.

[J_9]

Doesn't 12 years ago seem a little outdated for this conversation?

You are a little man with a little mind aren't you? It's apparent that you suffer from little man syndrome. I worked in the field 12 years ago, doesn't mean I haven't kept up with the field.

If he is truly out to get me, as you all say,

No one here said he was out to get you. However, your actions aren't angelic.

It appears you aren't a very nice boy. You are always right, never wrong.

We have tried to help you, yet you have all the answers. Still don't know why you asked the question if you knew the answers.

[upintheskyguy420man]

Through what it is I was told here I went and found the answers. I'd be ignorant indeed, if I were to do no fact-checking. Haha. My *words* here might not be, but which of my actions along the way of my story would have you believe that I acted wrongly, or anything which would opposite "angelic?"

As I said, I don't have all the answers, and had less when this post started. I'm not a little man, J. Haha. Seems you have a bit of sexist oppression going on there yourself.

You didn't say you keep up to date, you said "I have not been a part of..." (for 12 years) So I'm not just assuming that you might be a little outdated on the exact practices discussed here. It was a valid question.

I don't assume women have no place in law or court. Not at all. "J 9" doesn't represent either way, so it's my mistake for saying sir if I'm not sure. But I am not a sexist, so there is no need to treat me like one or act like one in response to what I say.

[smoothy]

The laws have not significantly changed in the last 12 years... nor have the legal processes, only in details that are unrelated to your situation. But like Talaniman stated... let us know how your way works out for you since you are bound and determined to do it your way. You feel some NEED to feel justified in how you are overreacting, and badly reacting... and you aren't going to find it here.

We have all known people who act as you have been, they have almost all ended up in prison or dead before they hit 30 much less 40 or more.

This isn't a debate club, nor is it a Moot Court... we are telling you how the real world operates, you however think its all a negotiation. I'm guessing you are quite young. You act and react in ways typical of a guy youger than 25, nearly all of whom are driven more by hormones than logic.

[talaniman]

It's been a while since I was involved with people trying to get through probation and I always had to talk them down from their own deep seated anger and frustrations at being in the system. They have the same thing in common as you do, wanting justice for themselves, and blaming others for it, and trying to fight it, instead of LEARNING and acknowledging the mistake in judgement that got them on probation in the first place.

For sure your conduct hasn't changed much and you still keep making a battle of this when you don't have too. You make things so hard on yourself and wonder why things are so hard. Naw the flaw in your logic is you think things have changed and you are entitled to do things differently, when in reality things have not changed and you have yet to learn to pick your battles a lot more carefully and give some thought before you act,and maybe think again.

Video taping the PO sessions is over the top. The idea is a stupid one, and highly counter productive to your goal of getting out of the system. You basic flaw is lumping many separate issues into one bowl and trying to solve them with the same solution. I highly advise you to separate your issues from your INTENTIONS, as your appeal, and probation are two things entirely. Both are different still from your initial arrest.

I think focusing on just getting through probation and drop the smart a$$ attitude completely will serve you much better in the long run. BLUNTLY, shut the hell up and lose the camera, and do as you are told. Why make this complicated because you're pissed at being on probation in the first place. You cannot learn unless you listen and follow directions.

You can't fight the system while you are in it and subject to it, so get out and let the wheels of justice work in their own time, NOT in yours. Slow going for sure, but you BETTER learn to keep your cool and follow simple instruction. I really don't give a damn what you think your rights are, or HOW you exercise them. You didn't exercise your right to remain silent, nor avail yourself the right to a speedy trial, so now you want to fight the system and get frustrated by the way it works? That's not a good decision and the logic behind you facts are seriously flawed.

Not listening after such a disaster will bite you. You have been lead to the insights you asked for, understanding and acting accordingly is up to YOU. Stop fighting yourself.

[upintheskyguy420man]

In my initial arrest I was charged with false information to a police officer for having told him the truth: that I was hit with a hammer. But that doesn't connect at all?

My frustration for being on probation in the first place did not come out in his office, as has been stated and stated and ignored and ignored so you could act like you know better when you simply won't read what is in front of you. I have followed directions also. I was at the residence of my attacker ("victim") again, and was violated for it. So what? I didn't treat my P.O. any differently or be snotty to him for it. Though I thought he was making a morally bad decision, he was within his power, as stated here, and I didn't give him any crap for it. The next meeting and meeting after that and after that all went the same way until he started screaming at me because of what my attorney suggested I do, and still I've kept calm to him about it.

You may tell me I act an age all you desire. Logic doesn't state that while my P.O. is acting this way, (and has the ability to "find a violation out of anything" as he does) I should suck it up, go to jail, and tell everybody how I may have been able to prove that I was doing everything allotted in my conditions and that I am supposed to be doing, but I listened to some random person online who told me to lose the desire to stay out of jail.

It is shown here a lot of people think I wouldn't have to screw up they could just find a reason. If he is already operating that way, and it is likely that he's trying to put me back in jail because of THE PAST AND WHAT MY ATTORNEY SUGGESTED. Not because I'm breaking his rules or conditions, that violation was quite some months ago. Anyone care to ignore all that and still act like I'm just bucking the system because I have a brain and mouth and can speak?

Saying I just want to be right all the time is kind of funny too. Just because you have found few holes in my story or ways to make me wrong, doesn't show anybody my only goal is being right. It means that if you are going to give advice, you need use MORE logic than you have previously tried to implore.

[upintheskyguy420man]

In may I suffered an injury involving a table-saw, ladies and gents. I still attended my mandated programming and came in to see my PO each week, even had some money saved to continue classes shortly before running out of funds. The day before my cast was off he tried to throw me in jail, and the probable cause was dropped.

I had just told him a few days prior to him trying to make me do work crew, that I had just finally been able to fit a shoe over my swollen foot. People get upset, people get emotional, people seem more frustrated, when they really are helpless to their situation. The only thing within my power would be to show the course of events in it's pattern and nature. Tell someone that has done all he can to show his good intentions and desire not to buck the system he is just trying to break the rules and won't take repercussions. I say I am completely reasonable with reasonable repercussions. I do accept my actions entirely. Asking to document my progress and saying "I just want to show I am doing well" is not breaking the rules or being resistant or non-complaint. Until you find a way to prove it is, it is you who are arguing just to argue and making a "debate" out of this.

You may have known a lot of people who wanted to take a stand for the better of children and peers and family and friends. I've seen what this woman is capable of, and I won't let the police cover it up. I do plan to fight the system where they are involved, but it hasn't been an active thing thus far, so you can't tell me I'm pressuring anyone there either. I did NOT plan to argue, fight, debate with, or upset my P.O. He asked a question. I told him I didn't want to answer because it was my business AND because it would upset him, which now shows as obvious because it DID upset him. Now that he IS and HAS BEEN disliking of me, it doesn't matter what the reason is. I personally know, that he treated me no differently until that day, and that I STILL don't treat him badly for it. Then he told me to answer the question and I did. After that time I nicely asked to document my progress and show I am doing what I need to do for my stay at probation.

I was wrong for that? Uncompliant? Resistant? Rude?

[upintheskyguy420man]

The bulk of the responses I've received add up to the effect of: "I don't even know why you entered the private room to talk to your attorney anyway. You were already wrong at that point and may as well have just said 'hey man, I'm all good on telling my side, just plead guilty and take whatever they want.' Now that you are wrong you can't change that."

And because I don't accept that as a final answer, or see it as giving "advice," saying "he's young because he isn't backing down so easy and has enough energy to continue down this road and take the problem head-on instead of being dominated and put away by it." Yes, I do feel I'm right a lot of the time. But I did admit to having violated probation months ago. I felt it was for the right reasons. I now have proof I was hit with a hammer which is all I wanted in going back down there, aside from avoiding the threats if I didn't.

Even when I was charged with a violation for that, I didn't give anybody a hard time.

As if, people. As if.