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harum · Apr 16, 2014, 03:06 PM

Hello, our house water line, which is a 1" copper pipe 1' deep in the front yard, runs right above the sewer cleanout, which is a vertical C.I.P. The cleanout plug, which is 1' below the water line, has to be brought to grade, that is, all the way to the surface.

Would it be acceptable to redirect the copper line around the cleanout by soldering four 90° elbows and extra pipe pieces? Let's say, cut out two ft. of the old pipe and solder in a 2' × 2' loop?

Would appreciate any comment. Best wishes, h.

speedball1 · Apr 16, 2014, 05:14 PM

You are going to run into code violation if you put solder jointgs under ground on a house service. Choice Your copper water line is made of soft and flexible copper tubing. You should be able to the dead threads back some feet and pull the copper from around the cast-iron pipe. Because of the high price of copper is unusual to see a house service made of copper. Good luck, Tom

harum · Apr 16, 2014, 08:01 PM

Thanks. Have never done blazing... Does it take more equipment/experience than copper pipe soldering?

Bending the pipe around the cleanout wouldn't solve it, because I have to install concrete water on top of cleanout, which sits deep.

speedball1 · Apr 17, 2014, 06:30 AM

Have never done blazing

what is "blazing"?

Bending the pipe around the cleanout wouldn't solve it, because I have to install concrete water on top of cleanout, which sits deep.

now you are making a simple job sound confusing. What's the difference between bending around the cast-iron and soldering elbows to get around the cast-iron? Actually concrete, that will be on top and shouldn't affect the copper below. Back to you, Tom

massplumber2008 · Apr 17, 2014, 10:00 AM

I think he means "BRAZING", Tom...;)

Harum, how about offsetting the cleanout pipe. Here, since you have one foot between the cleanout and the water main you should be able to get a threaded adapter that fits the cleanout threads and then install a new PVC threaded adapter and 2 - 45 degree fittings to offset the pipe around the water main and install a new cleanout to get flush to the ground.

Sound reasonable?

Mark

harum · Apr 17, 2014, 10:36 AM

Thanks for commenting and clarification. Yes, I meant to say "brazing". If I have done soldering of copper pipes before, would brazing ( required by the code for underground copper fittings, thanks again for pointing to this, Tom) be a possible DIY project?

The city sewer guys said the cleanout cannot be tweaked, it has to be vertical and to grade; only an extension of the cast-iron pipe is allowed. Nothing except for C.I. and no-hub Ferncos allowed on cleanouts.

The water boxes I have looked at are deeper than 1'.

massplumber2008 · Apr 17, 2014, 12:32 PM

Brazing is NOT really a do it yourself project...not on anything that will be covered anyway, but if you practice on enough fittings you may be able to do this (or just hire someone to do it quickly for you).

Finally, offsetting the cleanout using two 45s is considered a VERTICAL offset...just use clamps and cast iron pipe...probably cheaper and easier than messing around with brazing, practice, etc.

Up to you...

Mark

harum · Apr 17, 2014, 01:52 PM

Thanks, Mark. Just to be sure, by 2-45° fittings offset, do you mean an assembly looking like one on the photo?

I prefer cleanout offset to pipe redirection, but I have to convince the city sewer people that this offset is not against the code. Is there a reference saying that vertical offsets are okay that I could show them?

talaniman · Apr 17, 2014, 03:17 PM

Would there be a reason you have not asked for or considered the sewer guys recommendations?

harum · Apr 17, 2014, 03:24 PM

I have learned not to trust them. They were wrong on multiple counts (setback distance, the lateral material, even denied the existence of the cleanout until I exposed it, etc.). If cleanout offset is an option then I would like to point to the code article saying so. There is no other way to make them listen to you.

massplumber2008 · Apr 17, 2014, 06:25 PM

Hi Harum

I don't know of any plumbing code that says you can or cannot offset the cleanout, but I would talk to the "city sewer people" and I would tell them that you spoke to a licensed plumber and he suggested offsetting the sewer pipe cleanout using the 45s and clamps like you drew up there. I cannot imagine that there is a city water/sewer department that would like to see brazed joints or flared joints or any kind of joints whatsoever on an underground water main if it wasn't absolutely necessary!! It can't hurt to ask...go directly to the manager of the city water/sewer department if needed. I'm betting they will work with you!!

talaniman · Apr 17, 2014, 06:55 PM

Are you trying to sell your house? Just curious what brought this whole upgrade to attention? Could you give us a general location to find your options? I think submitting your plan to the proper people would be better than dealing with a field hand.

Or consulting with a licensed contractor would be the way to go.

harum · Apr 17, 2014, 09:32 PM

Well, thanks for all the feedback. I am getting help from a plumbing company with bringing the old cleanout to the current code, which includes extending it all the way up to grade and installing concrete water box. But it isn't going smoothly because the replacement wye has been installed well into the city property and the cleanout isn't high enough. This, of course, didn't satisfy the inspector. And those plumbers are certified and they told me they would follow the city code.

This house is not for sale, we live in it; it's just that it has a few problem areas. The sewer lateral is one of them, because it looks like it will need some cleaning pretty soon downstream from the cleanout by the city, except that the city people wouldn't do anything before the cleanout is up to the code, in which a cleanout is drawn with a straight vertical pipe between the surface and the 1/8 long bend. This apparently tells the city guys there should be no extra bends, like offsets.