[iheartmyshihtzu]

I have read many articles regarding my situation and I would like further advice if anyone has it. I have a 5 month old shih tzu and he is getting the grasp of potty training and actually really good at it. The only thing I am having the hardest time with him pooping and peeing in his crate when we leave for the day. I think its separation anxiety because he follows us everywhere, has to be by our side. When we leave him in his crate to go to work he cries extensivly and when my husband comes home for lunch he has soiled his crate! He is fine in his crate at night in our bedroom.
I have tried Comfort Zone, and Rescue Remedy. Nothing seems to work. Should I try getting a baby crate and potty pads and leaving him in the kitchen when we are gone? Please, if anyone has any advice at all I would greatly appreciate it!

[RubyPitbull]

Your puppy is following you around because dogs are pack animals. By nature, they need to be around their pack. Isolation is not something they respond well too. They need to be around their people as much as possible when they are puppies, they need a lot of socialization, in order to create a well balanced adult dog.

If you have been reading articles and such, you may want to take a look at labman's sticky at the top of this forum. He talks about crate training, among other things.

https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/dogs/i...man-53153.html

The other thing that comes to mind is, after your puppy eats in the morning, when are you walking him? Are you giving him enough time to fully relieve himself? Are you living in an area where you can find a dog walker, or someone willing to come in mid-morning and mid-afternoon, to walk and play with your dog for a little while? He is still very young and needs a lot of socialization and potty breaks. If you can do this, you might find that this will resolve the problem.

[labman]

I don't know that my housebreaking sticky will help that much. It does suggest the grid. They are highly effective in coping with urine if they are high enough up for the fluffier dogs. They are less effective on stools. They do not fix the problem, just make it easier to live with. Also I have heard smaller dogs can get hurt on them. In the ''What does a puppy need?'' section, I give the trick of lying down in front of the crate like you going to sleep to settle a new puppy for the night. It might work when you leave for the day. Following Ruby's idea of walking the puppy between eating and leaving, may help tire it out.

Have you tried the peanut butter in the Kong trick? The puppy can be too busy licking the peanut butter out to miss you. That works better on highly food motivated dogs.

How long have you had the puppy? It could be once he realizes somebody will be back, he will accept the crate better. Part of that may depend if he was abused by being confined too long in too small of a place in the past.

Labs are so quick to shred anything they can, I just cringe at the though of leaving any puppy out of a crate. I visited my daughter right after they got a Lhasa/Min Pin. He was fouling his crate. We shut him in the bathroom while we went out to dinner. It was shambles when we came back. Yo could try the baby pen. If it doesn't work, you can go back to the crate.

Better leadership might help too. If the top dog puts you in a crate, you need to stay there until the top dog lets you out. Dogs see all the people and dogs in the household as a pack with each having their own rank in the pack and a top dog. Life is much easier if the 2 legged pack members outrank the 4 legged ones. You can learn to play the role of top dog by reading some books or going to a good obedience class. A good obedience class or book is about you being top dog, not about rewarding standard commands with a treat. Start at Raising Your Dog with the Monks of New Skete For more on being top dog, see Establishing and Keeping Alpha Position

[grammadidi]

Sounds like you have received lots of valuable info already, but I was just wondering if maybe your crate is too large? Sometimes people think a larger crate is better, but if it is too large then they have room to go.

Another thought... one of my rescues suffers from extreme separation anxiety. I have found that he is more comfortable in total silence (ie: no ringing telephones, street noise, mailmen walking up the steps, etc.) and darkness. I have moved his crate into a remote area of the basement and it has worked wonders.

If your boy is suffering from separation anxiety you need to know that he may be actually fouling his pen in the first 20 to 30 minutes after you leave. So, as Ruby suggested, feed early and ensure puppy has eliminated. On the weekends you might want to try something different. Put the dog in the crate and go out for only one hour. See if there is a problem. If not, then the next time try an hour and a half. If yes, then reduce the time to 30 minutes. As long as there is no soiling, gradually stretch out the time.

I suspect it is more related to your feeding and his elimination habits than to separation anxiety if he is only messing the cage in the mornings. If so, try something different. If it's usually you who puts the pup in the crate in the morning have your husband do it instead (or vice versa). Once the puppy is in the crate do not communicate with him at all.

However, if it does seem to be separation anxiety then why not visit the vet and obtain an herbal remedy to use for a little while? The dog learns that staying in the crate can actually be pleasant and gradually there is no need for anything to be given.

Labman's peanut putter in the kong idea is a good one as well (you can use cheese, too). In fact, ensure the pup has a few safe chew toys to keep him occupied.

Good luck!

Didi

[iheartmyshihtzu]

I am still having a problem with him. The person I got him from was always there with him and he had his sister too, could that have something to do with this?
To answer some of the questions. I get up at 5:00 am every morning, take him out- he goes, and then let him eat and drink. I put him back in the crate while I take a shower and after that while I am getting ready he is out of the crate and sits by me. Before I leave for work (around 6:35ish) I take him out again and he again goes to the bathroom. We have tried different feeding times and it still doesn't work. We have the kitchen open for him with a potty pad down and some chew toys in there so he can be occupied. My cat also goes in there so that is someone he can play with. My husband also comes home for lunch (around 11) and he has pooped and peed on the floor. The first time he peed on the potty pad and pooped on the floor and today he did both on the floor. Everyday we leave him alone he poops and pees.
I am just super frustrated and I have run out of things to try. Should I try the crate again? If not, then what should I try now? There is no one I know out here because I am new to this area. All the dog walkers I have seen charge a super high amount. My husband and I are pulling out our hair, and we want to give up. Can someone please offer me some more advice that could possibly help. I appreciate all previous ones as well! Thank you!

P.S I think I am going to try the Kong trick. Hopefully that works! =)

[labman]

I would go back to the crate. At least it contains the mess. Work on your leadership. As long as your husband comes home at noon for a break, that should be enough.

[iheartmyshihtzu]

I tried the Kong w/ peanut butter and it worked for a little bit. I left for 10 minutes today and he pooped on the floor. I hate putting him in the crate because if he poops or pees then he will get it all over himself. He has dry skin because I have given him many baths. Will this get better when he gets a little older? What about when I neuter him? Any more advice?

=|

[iheartmyshihtzu]

Should i try getting a baby crate and potty pads and leaving him in the kitchen when we are gone?

I meant baby "gate" not "crate"! Sorry for the confusion if any! :o

[labman]

If the crate fouling is due to a challenge to your leadership, neutering him may help once all the hormones work their way out of his system. If it is just stress, it is less likely to help. Thank you for planning that responsible step. It helps many behavior problems, and reduces the chances of cancer later in life.

[RubyPitbull]

Iheart, I know you are getting frustrated but your dog is still young and training just doesn't happen overnight.

As I said in my earlier post, dogs are pack animals and do not respond well to isolation. If your puppy came from an environment where there was always someone else around, leaving him alone all day will create stress in your dog. Also, the bulk of your day is spent outside of the house. Therefore, the amount of time that you are spending on training is limited. It will take your dog a lot longer to catch on than most if there is no one around to correct him immediately. They just aren't capable of making the connection if they are not "caught in the act." You either need to be patient, giving this more time and try thinking "outside the box" to resolve the issues, or accept that maybe this situation is not in the best interest of the dog and find someone who can give him the time and attention he needs. Have you read any of the books on labman's list? Have you spoken with the people who bred him? Is it possible to work out a deal with them to take the dog for the day so they might be able to housebreak him or give you some other ideas based upon their knowledge of the breed and your dog specifically?

[iheartmyshihtzu]

Im not worried he isnt getting the grasp of potty training. He does wonderful when we are home and has very few accidents. I believe he gets so worked up when we are gone that he messes. Many people and trainers i have talked to say the same thing. The vet I talked to today couldnt give me any more suggestions and she said it will get better as he gets older. I understand he is a puppy and that he WILL have accidents, training takes time, i know. I take him to work with me as much as possible and he does awesome there as well. Its not like i leave him for 12 hours at a time, my husband comes home on his lunch, so he is only left for 4 hours twice a day. I have looked into places to take him and they are all super expensive as i already stated. I work 40 minutes away from my home and the previous owners are an additional 20 minutes, so that is not an option. I am just going to hope it gets better, and im going to be patient. Thanks everyone for your advice.

P.S My husband and I really werent pulling out our hair, we are just frustrated. =) We love him still. If I didnt think it was going to get better I would have given him up by now. Patience is a virtue.

[grammadidi]

I still think you should have the pup master being crated before you give him a bigger space... especially if part of this is due to anxiety. The smaller the crate, the less inclined he will be to mess in it, ESPECIALLY if you are consistent! The idea is that the crate is to become his 'safe place', his 'haven' where he feels safe and unthreatened. Move it to a quiet place in the basement. As I said earlier, practice on the weekend for shorter periods. Also, don't make a big fuss when you come home, or he could get more anxious awaiting the attention.

Didi