[NeedKarma]

Saw this, found it funny:

howdovaccinescauseautism.com

[smoothy]

I'm sorry to backtrack a little, but J mentioned that two OB's she knows pay $10,000 a month in malpractice insurance. I found that shocking. Not that I didn't believe you J, but I did remember something Sneezy (the only American doctor I know) told me a while back. So I emailed him to confirm if I remembered what he had told me, correctly. I asked if 1. The insurance costs were that high, and 2. If the doctors paid that premium out of pocket. His reply, verbatim "Yes, OBs do pay close to $100,000 in insurance. But no, you don't pay it out of pocket. Your hospital usually pays for it. Granted, if you're private practice, then yes, you pay for it on your own, but it's rare you become private practice. Chances are you join a private practice group in which they pay for it (but you also pay to join a private practice group)" He's actually working OB/GYN right now. He's hating it. Only 2 weeks left and he moves on to psychiatry. He can't wait.

J_9 is correct... thats what is called malpractice insurance... if someone tries to sue the practice or doctor if everything doesn't go 100% perfect. In some countries your ability to sue might be severely limited in all but the most serious cases. Here they can sue because they think the surgical scar is too big.

[Alty]

J_9 is correct... thats what is called malpractice insurance... if someone tries to sue the practice or doctor if everything doesn't go 100% perfect. In some countries your ability to sue might be severely limited in all but the most serious cases. Here they can sue because they think the surgical scar is too big.

I'm well aware of that Smoothy. I do know what malpractice insurance is, and what it's for. If you read my post again you'll see that I wasn't disputing that malpractice insurance is purchased, or the cost of it. I'm saying that the majority of doctors don't pay for it out of pocket. Their employers pay for it.

[smoothy]

J_9 could clear that up (she knows that better than anyone here).. but I think the individual doctors actually do pay their own... because their individual rates like auto insurance depends on their claim history. meaning 4 doctors at the same practice might pay 4 different rates. THere are doctors that had to close their practice because a couple accidents put their insurance costs past what they could pay.

[Alty]

J_9 could clear that up (she knows that better than anyone here).. but I think the individual doctors actually do pay their own... because their individual rates like auto insurance depends on their claim history. meaning 4 doctors at the same practice might pay 4 different rates. THere are doctors that had to close their practice because a couple accidents put their insurance costs past what they could pay.

I'm only going by what Sneezy told me, and he is a doctor in the US. He used to be a member of this site, until med school, when he became way to busy to participate here.

I will post what he told me again. Just in case you missed it.

Yes, OBs do pay close to $100,000 in insurance. But no, you don't pay it out of pocket. Your hospital usually pays for it. Granted, if you're private practice, then yes, you pay for it on your own, but it's rare you become private practice. Chances are you join a private practice group in which they pay for it (but you also pay to join a private practice group).

So according to what he wrote, the only time you would pay your own insurance is if you were in private practice, which is rare. Even then, you can join a private practice group which would pay the insurance rates, but then you'd be paying to join a private practice group.

[talaniman]

Send ISNEEZYFUNNY my best regards and I am so happy for the lad. :D He was in college just out of high school when he was here. Where does the time go?

[Alty]

Send ISNEEZYFUNNY my best regards and I am so happy for the lad. :D He was in college just out of high school when he was here. Where does the time go?

It flies by way too fast. I still remember him getting ready to take the MCATS, and how hard he studied for them. Now he's working in a hospital, very long hours, and loving every minute of it, well, except the rotation he's on now. He's not fond of the OB/GYN department. Apparently babies aren't his thing. ;)

He's my go to guy for anything medical. That kid amazes me. He's one smart cookie. He's an amazing doctor, and his career is only beginning. I know he's going to go on to do great things.

I'll definitely give him your best regards.

[smoothy]

So according to what he wrote, the only time you would pay your own insurance is if you were in private practice, which is rare. Even then, you can join a private practice group which would pay the insurance rates, but then you'd be paying to join a private practice group.

Please don't take this as being argumenative...as its not intended to be in any way...I'm just mentioning personal experience. Everywhere I've lived... most doctors in the region are in private practice... (even practices that might have multiple doctors are still private) Those are who are going to be your primary care physicians. Same with many specialists which might have privileges in the hospitals... but their offices are not part of the hospital and most often in their own leased space. More and more of the outpatient stuff is taken care of outside of actual hospitals... such as minor surgeries, things like colonoscopies etc. Some of them are close to major regional hospitals... in one case... my Gastroenterologists office and outpatient office (independent) where most of his procedures are done is only 1/4 mile (1/2 Kilometer) from a major Regional Hosital in this area. In areas like this and many others they might cluster in buildings intended for medical offices... where they are all unaffiliated with each other except sharing a common landlord. Can't say if that's common in Canada or not... but I know its not in Italy. Which is the other country I'm most familiar with (going back to 1988). Can't say I personally know any doctors who work exclusively in Hospitals (in the USA). Though I do know a few nurses that do, or at least did at one time. Two aunts were registered nurses, and my future sister-in-law is. I do know a few nurses and Doctors in Italy. But they tend to do things differntly there....not what I would call better in many ways. But in a few I'd say yes. Had a case with my late father-in-law that if it happened in the USA...would clearly be a malpractice case....but in Italy they were shielded from any legal or civil action. I also know a few others there with people I knew well.

[J_9]

Not that I didn't believe you J, but I did remember something Sneezy (the only American doctor I know) told me a while back. So I emailed him to confirm if I remembered what he had told me, correctly. I asked if 1. The insurance costs were that high, and 2. If the doctors paid that premium out of pocket.

His reply, verbatim "Yes, OBs do pay close to $100,000 in insurance. But no, you don't pay it out of pocket. Your hospital usually pays for it. Granted, if you're private practice, then yes, you pay for it on your own, but it's rare you become private practice. Chances are you join a private practice group in which they pay for it (but you also pay to join a private practice group)"

The OB I speak of is private practice, not employed by the hospital. He has privileges at our hospital, but that is as far as his employment with the hospital goes. He didn't pay to join the private practice group, he created it and has one other doctor practicing under him who does not have privileges at the hospital.

I hope that clears it up.

[talaniman]

There are many private doctors that are employed by a hospital and actually lease space as a satellite of the hospital, on hospital owned land and buildings. I provided a link before but will dig it up again.

[J_9]

So according to what he wrote, the only time you would pay your own insurance is if you were in private practice, which is rare.

And that may very well be the case where Sneezy lives.

I am in no way trying to argue with you Alty, so please don't take it that way.

Locations are specific when dealing with medicine. Bigger inner city hospitals do employ medical practitioners, while smaller cities and more rural areas have a higher rate of private practice doctors.

Private practice doctors tend to be the primary care practitioners, while the MDs employed by the hospitals are the doctors that patients are assigned to should they have to be admitted to a facility, for the most part.

Where I live private practice and hospital employed are 50/50. I can go to my primary care doctor, but he does not practice in a hospital, or for a hospital. If I were to have to be admitted, I would be admitted under a hospitalist. So my primary care pays his own med/mal insurance. Now, if Little J went to his doctor and had to be admitted, he would be admitted under his pediatrician because she is part of our hospital's group, so the hospital pays her med/mal insurance.

There are many private doctors that are employed by a hospital and actually lease space as a satellite of the hospital, on hospital owned land and buildings. I provided a link before but will dig it up again.

And such is the case with many of the doctors I work with. Our pediatricians operate that way. They are on contract with the hospital.

To go back to the original question...

I do think that vaccinations should be mandatory. The question is... How do you force people to do that?

What about religious beliefs. Jehovah's Witness comes to mind with blood and blood products. They refuse blood and blood products based on their religious beliefs. What if their child was dying and needed a transfusion? We can't give it if they refuse it. The hardest part is watching the child die because the parents refuse the treatment.

We are all intelligent adults. We all know what is right, vaccinations are right. They are right not only for the health of our children, but for the health of every person that child comes in contact with. One of they sayings we have in the hospital is "you can't fix stupid."

their individual rates like auto insurance depends on their claim history.

It also depends on their specialty. OB is the highest litigious practice in medicine with pediatrics falling closely behind. Because of the litigious nature of these practices, their premiums are higher.

Now, just because the hospital pays for your insurance doesn't mean you are adequately insured. Should there be a suit, and the doctor found liable, but the hospital was released, the hospital is no longer required to represent you. As a doctor or a nurse, it is also wise to carry your own insurance if this scenario were to play out.

As a nurse employed by the hospital, they cover my med/mal insurance. However, if I were found to actually be negligent, their insurance would cease to cover me. Thus, I carry my own policy as well.