[paraclete]

we have waited a long time to hear a report like this and now we will hear the outcry, the bleeding hearts will be all over us but we are going to lead in this soveriegn borders thing

Australia 'forces' asylum seeker boat back to Indonesia: reports

It maybe a little like King Canute but the time has come to review exactly what is an asylum seeker and a refugee. policies put in place to deal with the problems of refugees in the aftermath of WWII have created a world wide problem of people thinking they have a right to go where they like and claim refuge and there are countries who are not helping by allowing passage through their borders to those who are "passing through". It is a problem in Europe, it is a problem in North America and it is a problem in Australia and it is time to say enough is enough, the UN dictates don't deal with the realities of the problem

the fact is we cannot deal with the more than forty million displaced persons world wide, economic disadvantage has created mobile populations at the same time as war is displacing populations. The resources needed to deal with the flood just arn't there and we find that when peopele arn't allowed to settle they opt for returning. What was the point?

[smoothy]

Good... send the bums back to where they came from... if they won't work to fix the problems where they came from... they aren't going to lift a finger to fix any problems they cause there either.

The UN doesn't have an sovierenty as they aren't a country that does....the UN is a less than useless bunch of communists and despots and its time it gets disolved....it no longer functions as it was intended to..

[paraclete]

while part of what you say may be true smoothy, by treaty we are party to the convention on refugees as are other members of the UN, although not all have signed up. You and I both know that fixing the problems isn't in the hands of any individual and the push factors and mainly the results of wars and the indecisive conclusions to them. the UN created the problem of Palestine, for example, and look at the problems created by those refugees when they relocated large numbers of refugees from WWII, but beyond that the UN hasn't responded to the wars and situations that push these people out of their countries to avoid conflict

economicly multinationalism hasn't helped because it has stripped countries of the industries which might have offered employment. Your nation was able to absorb large numbers because it had a strong domestic industrial base but all that has really done is build an expectation that the experience can be repeated there and in other parts of the world. We have to fix the push factors and then we must bring development to the countries where these people belong. a large part of this is changing the way we respond. The war of terror destabilised an entire region, it was an over the top response and we are still paying for it

[smoothy]

Most of the UN picks and chooses what treaties they feel like honoring... the rest of us should as well.

Trust me... the illegal hordes have taken a toll here as well... in many ways you probibly have never heard of outside the USA.

For one... 30 years ago construction was a good job a man could suport a family on. Today 30 years later the prevailing wages are lower then they were then... WITHOUT factoring in inflation. Also if you don't speak spanish you can't get a job at most worksites... since most of the people there can't speak English... in an English speaking nation.

[paraclete]

Well smoothy you have yourselves to blame by allowing the situation to develop, holding down minimum wages and not dealing with the border issue. Construction is fine but it is a boom and bust industry, besides college graduates don't want those jobs and you have raised the expectations to very high levels. Yours has always been a two teir economy and you can't get away from it. The results are evident, and others are not immune from it, The great difficulties are the developed economies have one great export, unemployment, as soon as their economy turns down, they not only have unemployment, they generate it in other places. as far as language is concerned it changes with popuulations, but english is still the lingua franca of the world and it has not been spoken properly in your nation for a long time. You have your own version of it, written it looks similiar but spoken, well what can I say, we can't understand you and you can't understand us.

I think Israel has the right idea, build a dirty great wall and only allow a few to cross either way. it was fine when you were doing your own thing and so were we.

[paraclete]

back to the thread, the UN now tells us our action are illegal, it is only to be expected, their agenda is being twarted, but we don't care, if people don't respect our borders and laws we don't respect them. We can't get away from it living in poverty in a developed country is better than living in poverty in an underdeveloped country

[smoothy]

Well smoothy you have yourselves to blame by allowing the situation to develop, holding down minimum wages and not dealing with the border issue. Construction is fine but it is a boom and bust industry, besides college graduates don't want those jobs and you have raised the expectations to very high levels. Yours has always been a two teir economy and you can't get away from it. The results are evident, and others are not immune from it, The great difficulties are the developed economies have one great export, unemployment, as soon as their economy turns down, they not only have unemployment, they generate it in other places. as far as language is concerned it changes with popuulations, but english is still the lingua franca of the world and it has not been spoken properly in your nation for a long time. You have your own version of it, written it looks similiar but spoken, well what can I say, we can't understand you and you can't understand us.

I think Israel has the right idea, build a dirty great wall and only allow a few to cross either way. it was fine when you were doing your own thing and so were we.

Well, I'm sure the Brits could say the same of your dialect of the English language... not to mention every other English speaking contries.

But English is and alsays has been a language that evolves... Even in England it has.

THe problem was as it is most places... you have one political party that wants to hand out citizenship to one group to get their votes at the expense of every other group... and its not just here... but every country I've spent enough time in. Here it's the Democrats... In Italy it's the Communist Party that does it. Englands finally waking up to see the problem they have been ignoring for far too long as has France. And as far as wages... the current minimum wage is far too high for most of the people that work for it... if it was too low they should go work for someone willing to pay more. But then those people won't hire them because they aren't worth that much.

[smoothy]

back to the thread, the UN now tells us our action are illegal, it is only to be expected, their agenda is being twarted, but we don't care, if people don't respect our borders and laws we don't respect them. We can't get away from it living in poverty in a developed country is better than living in poverty in an underdeveloped country

When it all boils down to it... each country is soveriegn... and it alone gets to dictate who can and can't be there... and under what terms they can.

[paraclete]

exactly and it comes down to the same for hiring too, what use are people with no skills, we don't need them we have enough of those already, but skilled peopel always have a place. What it comes down to is people have to be given skills. this what the market doesn't do, it demands people have skills. The minimum wage is what we call a furrfy, it isn't the issue. the issues are costs and exploitation

[tomder55]

Milton Friedman - Illegal Immigration - PT 1 - YouTube

[paraclete]

let's get down to the issue and Friedman does identify it

What’s the difference? How can people be so inconsistent? Why is it that free immigration was a good thing before 1914 and free immigration is a bad thing today? Well, there is a sense in which that answer is right. There’s a sense in which free immigration, in the same sense as we had it before 1914 is not possible today. Why not?

Because it is one thing to have free immigration to jobs. It is another thing to have free immigration to welfare. And you cannot have both. If you have a welfare state, if you have a state in which every resident is promises a certain minimal level of income, or a minimum level of subsistence, regardless of whether he works or not, produces it or not. Then it really is an impossible thing.

freeloaders arn't wanted anywhere. We can't judge whether anyone will be a freeloader but as he says when certain things are guaranteed to a citizen you cannot allow pockets of poverty and disadvantage to grow. What we can be certain of is that unless an individual possesses the ability to be employed in the society they will become a burden to it. I and my fellow citizens did not agree to take on these burdens on the whim of someone in a far away place who has heard a fabulously wealthy place exists

[paraclete]

indonesia now accuses Australia of facilitating the movement of asylum seekers. Talk about the pot calling the kettle black. What part of their voyage emminated from your port don't these guys understand? What part of they were allowed to enter your country, to transit your country don't these guys understand? What part of allowing and facilitating this traffic is an attack on our soveriegnty don't these guys understand. What part of you are Muslim, they are muslim and we are not don't they understand? What part of you allowed them to make a cliam for refugee recognition in your country therefore they are your problem don't these guys understand? tell you what next tsumani no billion dollars for you

http://www.abc.net.au/news/#state=nsw

[talaniman]

That's the price you pay for being the perfect society.

[paraclete]

"That's the price you pay for being the perfect society.""

yes Tal white man's burden and all that, what's your excuse? It's a hard job but someone has to do it, but no one said we had to like it