[shelby68gt500]

Hi All, Didn't know where to turn and I feel that I'm being pushed off a cliff. I've been married to my wife for 17 years now and we have 2 children, a boy who is 11 and a girl who is 13. Generally, these kids are very well adjusted and do well in school. I missed a great deal of their growing up due to my prior work position, which I finally quit 18 months ago (and sadly am still un-employed). I quit that job to find something that would allow me to try and "catch-up" with my kids lives as well as to save my life as I was feeling like I was one day away from a heart attack from the stress.
My wife (at my concurrence) has been a stay at home mother ever since the 11 year old was born and had always done a wonderful job, even in my mind. Since I left my job though it became apparent that my wife does EVERYTHING for these kids. They have no chores of any kind, don't even take their dinner plate to the sink. My wife brushes their teeth, bathes them, wipes their buttocks after #2's, does all their homework with them, sleeps with the 11 year old when he asks her to, drives my daughter to school instead of the bus for the past 8 years and I can go on and on. When I provide anything other than full blown compliments to them, they cower away from me like I'm going to strike them. I think I've spanked them each maybe twice since they were born and the last time was probably 8 years ago. I can't give any type of criticism, they start to cry and my wife jumps all over me and is mad at me for a week. She will not back me at all, for anything, ever. The kids know this and use it to their advantage. I feel now like I'm just a tenant here and that I've lost my kids and my wife. She treats me in a way that really gives me the impression that she is making things so miserable for me so that I'll leave. I love my wife (although I do resent her for making my kids hate me) and I don't want to blow up this marriage by leaving. But it is becoming increasingly hard to even be around, I feel like an Amish who is being shunned. My wife still will cook for me (and obviously the kids), still does my laundry and from time to time even gives me some sex, although it is only initiated by me and there is no affection involved, only pleasure. All of the things that we used to enjoy when we were dating and the first 10 years of our marriage she no longer does, it is like we no longer have any connection. She refuses to go to counseling because the last time we went years ago before kids, the counselor basically sided with me.
Now, this is obviously just a snippet of the big picture, and obviously only my side of things. I know that I'm not perfect, but I'm not even close to being what she believes that I am as far as being a husband and father. What I'm hoping is that maybe she has some sort of imbalance or something that can be treated. But if she just refuses everything I propose, what can I do? Live as an emasculated husband the rest of my life here? I'm at my wits end and will do anything to get my wife and kids back... I can't reach out to her family as she would never forgive me and the marriage would definitely be over... At wits end...

Thanks, Bob in VA

[ScottGem]

A woman that wipes an 11 and 13 yr old is sick and needs help. And those children need help adjusting, otherwise they will never be able to function on their own. What is going is emotional abuse.

I would suggest you see a counselor and explain what you have been noticing. Let the counselor advise what to do. You may have to get Family Services involved to force counseling.

[shelby68gt500]

A woman that wipes an 11 and 13 yr old is sick and needs help. And those children need help adjusting, otherwise they will never be able to function on their own. What is going is emotional abuse.

I would suggest you see a counselor and explain what you have been noticing. Let the counselor advise what to do. You may have to get Family Services involved to force counseling.

Scott, I can't thank you enough for your response. I've thought and want to do counseling (preferrably when I was working again and could afford it). But she will not participate and I feel that she would have to in order to save my marriage. I just can't fathom losing the love of my life and my kids with a divorce, and that is what would happen if I brought outsiders into this mess... It just seems like no matter which way I go, I'm going to lose BIG TIME...

Bob

[ScottGem]

Based on what you said, she is abusing your children. Most of what you described isn't so bad though a little over the top. But wiping their butts at their ages is way too much. If you are telling the truth about that, your wife is ill. She needs help and your children need to be allowed to grow up normally.

But the only way that's going to happen is if you get children's services involved. That means going to a counselor who can advise the best way to force her to get help and get your children help. It may come to filing for divorce and custody of the children. But I'm thinking first of the welfare of those children.

[joypulv]

Shocked as I am by butt wiping 13 and 11 year olds, I don't think it's going to be investigated by social services.
I'm even dubious. I find it incredible that children that age would allow themselves to be bathed and wiped.
I am right on the fence between believing you and not.
So... I'll stay out of the discussion.

[dontknownuthin]

This isn't about what you want. Your kids are in an abusive situation even if they appear OK. As the father, you don't wait for someone to "let you" parent. If she prevents you from setting reasonable expectations, you have to do what is right for the kids. Sounds like she is mentally ill. You will have to get help with this.

[ScottGem]

Shocked as I am by butt wiping 13 and 11 year olds, I don't think it's going to be investigated by social services.
I'm even dubious. I find it incredible that children that age would allow themselves to be bathed and wiped.
I am right on the fence between believing you and not.
So... I'll stay out of the discussion.

Like you I'm a bit dubious about this story. I have to wonder about the children allowing it, especially the boy.

But I'm choosing not to take a chance. If the story is fake, it would be soon found out. If its not, those children need rescuing. And if it is true, then I firmly believe this is emotional abuse and needs to be dealt with. I thiks social services will agree.

[shelby68gt500]

Joy, What I've described is the gods honest truth. I'm sure I'm even leaving a few other things out, but I think most folks understand what is happening. My kids are really very well adjusted and are both honor roll, but I'm so afraid that they would never be able to fend for themselves eventually and would forever be dependent on my wife. They can't take even the slightest bit of criticism from me without cowering and eventually ending up in my wife's arms crying because of what I said.
Now, I'm also sure that my unemployment has factored into this as far as her emotions. I'm doing real estate in the meantime until I can land a job back into my field, but it hasn't yet brought in the kind of money that she's been used to having since we've been together.

Like you I'm a bit dubious about this story. I have to wonder about the children allowing it, especially the boy.

But I'm choosing not to take a chance. If the story is fake, it would be soon found out. If its not, those children need rescuing. And if it is true, then I firmly believe this is emotional abuse and needs to be dealt with. I thiks social services will agree.

Scott, I can understand folks being skeptical about my claims. It is the internet age and it seems like you never can tell. Believe me though, I never in a million years believed that I would be in a situation like this. I finally did break down last night and called my stepmother and father (who just happen to live down the street from my wife's parents and are good friends) to vent. I hadn't been able to talk to anyone about this as I was afraid that if my wife knew all hell would break out. But my stepmother is the kindest lady and always has been to me, so I knew that she would listen and not judge. That was the first time I've spoken a word of anything to anyone and this has been going on for at least the last 18 months. It has been a brutal 18 months for me, all this going on, no job and what appears to be no way out that would save my marriage and have my kids be my kids again... I finally just did some Google searches on husbands of overprotective mothers tonight and came across this site. Just figured that I can do this discretely without her knowing to try and educate myself with what others have to say about my plight. As I mentioned previously, I just feel like I'm being pushed towards a cliff and I'm frigging helpless... Bob

[Alty]

I realize that you're trying to save your marriage, and that's why you came here, but after reading your posts, it's not your marriage that needs saving, it's your kids.

Your wife need counseling. What she's doing to these children is abusive. You are their father. You do have a say in how they are raised, and you shouldn't be cowering in a corner because she threatens divorce, or gets mad at you, every time you go against the crazy things she's doing to these poor children.

Your kids need you to man up.

I agree with Scott. Get counseling for yourself, tell the counselor about the butt wiping, brushing their teeth, etc. Ask for help in dealing with this, and for advice. Tell the counselor how you're treated in the home, and everything else you've told us here. Ask if you should call CPS about this. Or call CPS and ask if your situation warrants a visit from them. Either way, if this ends in divorce (which it will unless you force her to get help) then you'll have the proof to backup that you were trying your very best to help your wife, and more importantly your kids.

If your wife won't get help dealing with this, the kids really would be better off with the two of you divorcing, you filing for custody, and having only supervised visits with their mother.

That's my advice.

[J_9]

While not riding the bus isn't a problem. I didn't allow my children to ride the bus either. I drove all 4 of them to and from school, and only have one left in school.

The problem is the emotional abuse by your wife. I can't fathom a 13 year old girl, who may have started her period, or an 11 year old boy, who is starting puberty, to allow their mother to wipe their behinds. That is the most insane thing I have ever heard!

It's time for you to stand up and be a man. Confront your wife once and for all. I'm not one for ultimatums, but in this case she either get's counseling or you will take the children from her.

Your children are NOT well adjusted if they are allowing their mother to wipe their arses.

[shelby68gt500]

I realize that you're trying to save your marriage, and that's why you came here, but after reading your posts, it's not your marriage that needs saving, it's your kids.

Your wife need counseling. What she's doing to these children is abusive. You are their father. You do have a say in how they are raised, and you shouldn't be cowering in a corner because she threatens divorce, or gets mad at you, every time you go against the crazy things she's doing to these poor children.

Your kids need you to man up.

I agree with Scott. Get counseling for yourself, tell the counselor about the butt wiping, brushing their teeth, etc. Ask for help in dealing with this, and for advice. Tell the counselor how you're treated in the home, and everything else you've told us here. Ask if you should call CPS about this. Or call CPS and ask if your situation warrants a visit from them. Either way, if this ends in divorce (which it will unless you force her to get help) then you'll have the proof to backup that you were trying your very best to help your wife, and more importantly your kids.

If your wife won't get help dealing with this, the kids really would be better off with the two of you divorcing, you filing for custody, and having only supervised visits with their mother.

That's my advice.

Thanks Altie, I appreciate your input. This is all so overwhelming and I just feel like I'm at a breaking point. Divorce would just kill me and I can tell you now that my kids would never agree to me having full custody because they know that I wouldn't baby them and they would probably hate me more than they do now for taking them from their mother. I mean now, they just pretty much just say hi to me and ignore me the rest of the time. I can just imagine what it would be like if the scenario you envision took place... It just seems like no matter what I end up doing, my life as I've known it the last 20 years or so is over. That is so chilling to me that it just almost makes me want to continue on status quo like an ostrich sticking its head in the sand... Bob

While not riding the bus isn't a problem. I didn't allow my children to ride the bus either. I drove all 4 of them to and from school, and only have one left in school.

The problem is the emotional abuse by your wife. I can't fathom a 13 year old girl, who may have started her period, or an 11 year old boy, who is starting puberty, to allow their mother to wipe their behinds. That is the most insane thing I have ever heard!

It's time for you to stand up and be a man. Confront your wife once and for all. I'm not one for ultimatums, but in this case she either get's counseling or you will take the children from her.

Your children are NOT well adjusted if they are allowing their mother to wipe their arses.

J9, Yes, my daughter started her period about a year ago (according to my wife anyway) and my son is approaching puberty, but I don't know for sure because I don't have a real relationship with him, he even "covers up" if I happen to walk into the bathroom while he is naked. My kids are so bonded to my wife that they don't even think twice about her actions, they have no reason to think what she is doing is wrong. They certainly won't take my word for it, compared to what "Muddy" says or does... I did attempt to broach the subject again yesterday with my wife about the whole -wiping, etc, and she said that her mother took care of her and she was going to take care of her kids. When I asked her if her mom wiped her until she left for college, she just went into a rage and stormed off... Man, got to love my life right now... Bob

[J_9]

My kids are so bonded to my wife

Shelby, they aren't bonded to your wife, they are controlled by her.

Let me ask you this... Are they ever sick? Do they ever get unusual illnesses?

[Wondergirl]

Also, do they stay overnight at friends' homes or go to school -- in other words, have to care for themselves (and wipe themselves) without "Muddy" around?

[Alty]

Thanks Altie, I appreciate your input. This is all so overwhelming and I just feel like I'm at a breaking point. Divorce would just kill me and I can tell you now that my kids would never agree to me having full custody because they know that I wouldn't baby them and they would probably hate me more than they do now for taking them from their mother. I mean now, they just pretty much just say hi to me and ignore me the rest of the time. I can just imagine what it would be like if the scenario you envision took place... It just seems like no matter what I end up doing, my life as I've known it the last 20 years or so is over. That is so chilling to me that it just almost makes me want to continue on status quo like an ostrich sticking its head in the sand... Bob

Your kids are kids, and they have no idea how warped any of what their mother is doing, is. You do. It's a parents responsibility to protect their children, even if it means protecting them from the other parent.

You're only thinking of yourself, and holding on to a marriage that sounds abusive as well. You're not even allowed to give an opinion about your own children without your wife going into a rage? You think that's healthy?

If you continue to stick your head in the sand the ones that will suffer most are your children. Are you strong enough to be a man and stand up for your children, even if they don't understand, or are you going to continue allowing your wife to abuse them and you?

[shelby68gt500]

Shelby, they aren't bonded to your wife, they are controlled by her.

Let me ask you this... Are they ever sick? Do they ever get unusual illnesses?

J9, Yes, they do get sick from time to time, but no unusual illnesses that I can recall. Just the normal stuff they bring home from school mostly.
The kids may be controlled by her, but they don't see it that way. They see it that they get whatever they want whenever they want it, how could a young kid not want that compared to a parent (me) that wants something different and what I would believe to be normal? She has been engrained in their heads ever since they were born and they know nothing different except for me and I"m "overruled"... Bob

[Alty]

Also, do they stay overnight at friends' homes or go to school -- in other words, have to care for themselves (and wipe themselves) without "Muddy" around?

I'm assuming they have to wipe themselves if they go to the bathroom at school. I'm actually shocked that "Muddy" allows them to go to school, and doesn't home school them. I mean, goodness knows what they'll pick up from the kids at school. They may actually learn that what their mother does to them, is not normal by any means.

[Wondergirl]

I'm assuming they have to wipe themselves if they go to the bathroom at school. I'm actually shocked that "Muddy" allows them to go to school, and doesn't home school them. I mean, goodness knows what they'll pick up from the kids at school. They may actually learn that what their mother does to them, is not normal by any means.

Yes, don't kids talk to each other and compare notes about parents (they used to!)? If they listen to other kids, don't these two kids realize something is off kilter at home?

[Alty]

J9, Yes, they do get sick from time to time, but no unusual illnesses that I can recall. Just the normal stuff they bring home from school mostly.
The kids may be controlled by her, but they don't see it that way. They see it that they get whatever they want whenever they want it, how could a young kid not want that compared to a parent (me) that wants something different and what I would believe to be normal? She has been engrained in their heads ever since they were born and they know nothing different except for me and I"m "overruled"... Bob

They're kids! Kids only know what they're taught, and they've been taught by your wife. She makes all the rules for everyone in the house. This is how they grew up, so of course they see nothing wrong with it. That's why someone else, like their father, has to stand up for them, because they're only children, they can't stand up for themselves!

I hate to say this, but you're as much to blame for all of this as your wife. You didn't step in, you didn't say no, you didn't stand up to her for the sake of your children. Where have you been the last 13 years? Have you been sticking your head in the sand for that long? If you sit by and do nothing, which is what you've been doing and continue to do, than this is your fault too. These kids need someone to help them. It's not going to be their mother, and it seems that it's not going to be you either.

[shelby68gt500]

Your kids are kids, and they have no idea how warped any of what their mother is doing, is. You do. It's a parents responsibility to protect their children, even if it means protecting them from the other parent.

You're only thinking of yourself, and holding on to a marriage that sounds abusive as well. You're not even allowed to give an opinion about your own children without your wife going into a rage? You think that's healthy?

If you continue to stick your head in the sand the ones that will suffer most are your children. Are you strong enough to be a man and stand up for your children, even if they don't understand, or are you going to continue allowing your wife to abuse them and you?

Alty, this woman is/was the love of my life. I waited 36 years to find the right one and 40 to have kids hoping that waiting that long would give me the maturity to do the right things and have a marriage that would last my lifetime. I just can't fathom not being married to her, even if the last 18 months has been a living hell.
But, I guess just the fact that I'm on here bleeding my heart out to total strangers says a lot... Maybe it is just time to call her parents (I love them to death, they are the nicest folks) and ask them for their help. I just have a hard time determining what would be worse, how things are now or life back on my own again without her and my kids. I'm telling you that if I go the route of Child Protective Services, my kids would probably never even speak to me again... Bob

[J_9]

Shelby, all I'm seeing from you is excuses. Are you normally this wimpy?

My God! Stand up. Be a MAN and protect your children from "Muddy." She is harming your children and you are only afraid that she will yell at you.

Go ahead, stick your head in the sand and you will be equally at fault for your children having mental disorders as well.