[Out of hope]

My son is 25 and lives with me. He was diagnosed 4 times as bipolar and twice as not having it. He is also an alcoholic. He has been to rehab for extended amounts of time. For a while he does okay. But he cannot keep a job because he either steals or is drunk. He steals my medicine knowing I have lupus and am just recently in remission from an incurable form of non Hodgkin's lymphoma( it just keeps coming back with no total cure) I do lock my meds up and hide them but he always manages to pilfer through everything until he finds it. When he is not drinking he is tolerable but when he is drinking ( with money he steals from me) even though I keep my purse locked up , he is extremely argumentative. He curses and screams and there is no reasoning with him. He thinks now that he has borderline personality disorder. I will say he has a lot of the symptoms and I do think he needs to be assessed for this. It is hard for me to tell what is caused by the alcohol and what's is not. I live by myself with him as his father left me after I was diagnoised with cancer and after having an affair. I don't know what to do or where to turn. Any meds they have put him on he refuses to take either completely or stops after a little while. I am to the point where I am afraid and have had to get an EPO on him. He was angry this evening and had been drinking again and slammed the door back and hit my hand hard. I just want to know if some of his problem is mentall illness or if its an addiction problem with really bad behavior.

[joypulv]

People online can't tell you if he is dual diagnosis or not.
And borderline is not an easy diagnosis to make.
You do need to tell him he has to move out.
You do need to (meanwhile) do a better job of actually LOCKING up your purse and meds, even if you have to buy a two ton safe.
I would give him written notice that he has 30 days to move out, and during those 30 days he must go to AA ONCE A DAY (!! No exceptions), stay sober, and not break into your safe, or physically harm you, even if slamming a door.
Whether he goes to a clinic for mental health is his choice. I'd leave that out of the demands for now. He knows best what is torturing his thoughts.
At the end of the 30 days you evict or re-evaluate your demands to see if he gets another 30 days.
You aren't being harsh enough.

[tickle]

I agree, you are heartbroken at this, but you HAVE to initiate TOUGH LOVE and don't give in to your mothering mode.

[Jake2008]

I wouldn't kick him to the curb just yet.

What I would do, as you yourself suggested, is have him reassessed for mental illness, and have his alcohol addiction dealt with. There are many ways to do this, with 12 step programs, counseling, treatment centres- in patient and medically monitored.

Because he has taken an assortment of medication, both yours, and his, combined with the alcohol, much of his behavior as you thought, is probably due to the havoc he is inflicting on his body with the pills and booze.

It doesn't sound like he has been on medication, and/or been sober for a long enough period to assess him totally clean.

I would let him know, that you expect him to see first the family doctor. He needs the medication and assessment referral in order to figure out what to do medically. Talk to the doctor yourself and insist on both assessments.

Go and buy a firebox at your local hardware store, that has a good lock and key. Find a place in your home where he won't find it, or even be aware of it. Keep only the minimum amount of medication you need on hand for yourself.

Let him know that you have done some research, and give him names of local self-help groups, dates, times, and addresses. Also provide him with the local welfare office information, and any shelters available where you live, through something like the Salvation Army.

Let him know that you expect changes, and beginning in one week's time, he is to comply with a visit to the family doctor for assessment and referral. Make sure his doctor knows what's going on- with both of you.

Let him know that after the visit, he is to comply with any appointments made to seek further help with his mental illness (a psychiatric assessment and addiction treatment). Follow up with the Doctor to make sure the appointments have been made, and know when they are, who they are with, and where they will take place.

Tell him you will be on top of this, and will insist on him doing what you expect of him.

Let him know the consequences- then- should he not comply.

1. You will remove him from the home.
2. You will call police at any time you feel threatened by his behavior, no matter what is 'causing' it.

I would also suggest that you yourself, have some sort of back up. Either from a friend, or relative, or neighbor. You might consider too, seeking help in how to maintain a plan such as this. It will not be easy.

But, it has gone on far too long, and you are contributing to him being dependent on you to provide for him, right down to his drugs. In order for him to stand on his own two feet, you need to stand firm on yours.

[Out of hope]

The rehab he was in was a dual diagnosis place. But still no answer. He was put on depression meds but as usual stopped taking it. He has been in the hospital after a suicide attempt also. I have had him committed to a mental hospital but he puts on an act in front of other people so they usually think he is fine. The money he stole last time was accidentally left in a pair of my jeans. My purse is always locked in my car. He is extremely sneaky and relentless about finding a way to get what he wants. Manipulative also. He threatens to kill himself but just when he is drunk. As far as him drinking he waits till I am asleep and brings stuff in. I have went through his car on several occasions when I can get his key and found alcohol and poured it out. I agree he needs to get out and I have put him out twice already and he ends up getting kicked out where he is living because of his drinking. He went to AA meetings but where we live there is only one a week. There are numerous NA meetings here and he went to some of them as well. I do believe that if he is out on his own he will die from alcohol poisoning which he has been hospitalized for before or end up in jail. He also has problems with his liver from his drinking. Then I wonder if jail would be the best place for him. I wish I could know if there really is a mental disorder under all this or what.

[joypulv]

After all our time spent on suggestions, you are essentially saying 'BUT.'
He could easily end up dead no matter where he is, even with you - right?
What's the point of wishing you could know about a mental illness? Mental illness falls on a spectrum of severity, of diagnoses, of confusion with alcoholism. And he is an adult, an adult who won't do anything about it, and that's all that matters.
You are clearly waffling here, and not really listening.
You would rather tell more stories, which is frustrating, but at least we are learning a few more things, such as that he has a CAR!? Who the heck is paying for the insurance? Who is giving him money?

[Out of hope]

Joypuly, you first response was helpful but your second response is rude. His grandfather bought his car and he has no insurance. If my posts are frustrating to you don't read them or reply. If it was your son you would want to know if he really had a mental illness. Yes, I know he is an alcoholic regardless of his mental health.

[N0help4u]

From knowing a lot of people with bipolar and drinking and/or drug problems what I see is the 2 go hand in hand and the doctors seem to just want to slap the bipolar label on them. It is really hard to diagnose what is going on with them when they have all the drugs and alcohol going through them. I have seen it time and time again, they get a forced rehab or they get to where their body can't handle any more. They go to rehab more or less just to get their system clean and then they go back to starting all over. When someone is so addicted and so much mental issues they can't change how they are until they get to a breaking point where they SEE THEY NEED to change. They can go to rehab a zillion times over but it doesn't do any good until they see how bad off they really are. You can't change him, you can't make him want to change. All you really can do is tough love and ultimatums, but then you HAVE to stick to them. He is going to continue running your life downhill. The saying that doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results is the definition of insanity is so true.

[joypulv]

Yes, I was rude out of frustration. You didn't address any of the steps you need to take at all. He went to the one AA meeting a week, and several NA meetings, and -----?
You were given advice that you have to make RULES a REQUIREMENT of living with you, and you glossed right over that. So I felt that we had wasted our time. And that's rude in return.
You need to be your son's employer and CO. Shape up, do the work, take the tests, or ship out and flunk out and get kicked out.

Yes, I would have course want to know if my son had a mental illness. But sitting there saying that isn't going to make it happen, and in fact (as NoHelp just said) it's almost impossible to separate alcoholism and mental illness, and doctors DO 'try' it as a diagnosis to see if medications work, mostly.
So I stand by my rudeness because I think you need it to get your toughness building. It's no skin off my back if you get mad at me. Getting angry is what you need to do, and then you need to direct it in the right direction.

[Out of hope]

As all these posts were made today I have not had the time to implement the suggestions made. That does not mean that I won't. I simply needed to vent about the situation. Of course he has had rules and consequences.

[tickle]

Joypuly, you first response was helpful but your second response is rude. His grandfather bought his car and he has no insurance. If my posts are frustrating to you don't read them or reply. If it was your son you would want to know if he really had a mental illness. Yes, I know he is an alcoholic regardless of his mental health.

In essence joy is right. You keep on putting up roadblocks and introducing new information.

What do you want us to say exactly. We can't help you physically with this problem. You have many good viewpoints in this thread just get up off your butt, get proactive and DO SOMETHING.

By the way, you don't get to say who responds to this thread.

Just why are you here ?

[Out of hope]

Thank you Jake2008 and NOhelp4you.

[Alicesonb]

Ok this might not be what you want or expect to hear, but I too suffer from PTSD except mine developed after witnessing my husband shot himself in the head. I have found that PTSD makes it pretty much impossible to be around a lot of the time, and even more so to be in a relationship. I am not a mean or angry person, or at least I use to not be, but I find that now days the slightest noise can set off this fire inside of me! I am studying psychology now trying to gain a better understanding of PTSD, but from what I have learned so far is my stratel response is at extremes and my anger outbursts stem from stimuli such as being startled. On top of the depression from what I went through losing the love of my life one month short of our 5 year anniversary. I have since began dating a man who at first was god sent, he understood perfectly that I had issues, and he remembered and avoided my triggers. But recently our relationship has sunk. We are arguing all the time and that tells me that maybe he might have wanted to be understanding and maybe he wants to be there for me, but in reality how can I expect him to understand and be there for me when I can't do those things for myself? Not to mention I too thought I was dealing with everything, I was able to leave my house find a job and started socializing as well, all this in the first year! However now at the 2 year mark I am again without a job, don't really leave the house much and every tiny noise scares the crap out of me. The nightmares have returned and life has pretty much vanished for me. I was wondering how long has it been since you returned with PTSD? And just a side note, my new boyfriend and your ex seem a lot alike, he as well has a "violent" fetish for lack of a better word. I am currently experiencing a new symptom that I have yet to find the answer to... Memory loss, I can hold a conversation with you one day and swear till I'm blue in the face the next that it never happened. Have you had this problem? I mean I know that it’s a symptom, but why is the question I'm trying to answer. Anyway I know this is a long rambling response, but I thought maybe it might help to let you know that you are not alone in the problems you face and that maybe the you thought you had it under control part was just that the full range of symptoms hadn't set in yet, which would lead me to say talk to your psych. See if there is anything new triggering this or if it's just newly surfaced symptoms that you can treat. Best of luck in the relationship field... And I'm here if you need to ramble back!