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Sottyoh · Sep 9, 2013, 11:05 AM

My mother was born in 1918 in US and left the country with her parents when a youngster (not sure when). She has lived in Bermuda ever since and but never inquired whether she was an American citizen. I was born in Bermuda in 1950. Do I have any claim to American citizenship?

smoothy · Sep 9, 2013, 02:16 PM

Unlikely... she might have been born here... but as she grew up outside the USA and likely had citizenship there... she would have had to have done something to establish which she wanted when she was 18. Dual citizenship is not universally recognized by the USA.

newacct · Sep 9, 2013, 02:27 PM

Someone who was born or naturalized in the United States cannot lose U.S. citizenship involuntarily under any circumstances. It is protected by the Constitution.

** rude comments edited out

tickle · Sep 9, 2013, 02:30 PM

Originally Posted by smoothy

Unlikely....she might have been born here...but as she grew up outside the USA and likely had citizenship there...she would have had to have done something to establish which she wanted when she was 18. Dual citizenship is not universally recognized by the USA.

My son has dual citizenship smoothy. He was born in the US to CDN parents. Dual is recognized by the US.

tickle · Sep 9, 2013, 02:31 PM

Yes, quite probably you are a US citizen, if your mother was of course.

newacct · Sep 9, 2013, 02:35 PM

OP: You need to give more information. Were your parents married to each other when you were born? What periods (what age to what age) did your mother live in the United States before you were born? Did you ever live in the United States? Did your father ever get U.S. citizenship?

N0help4u · Sep 9, 2013, 02:38 PM

Sounds like OP's mother lived in Bermuda from the 1920's on. Looks like OP would have been born in Bermuda about 20 some years later.

smoothy · Sep 9, 2013, 02:44 PM

Originally Posted by tickle

My son has dual citizenship smoothy. He was born in the US to CDN parents. Dual is recognized by the US.

Not EVERY country is recognized is the point I was making... some are... but not all. That's a matter of treaty with the specific countries.

For instance... My wife is as well... I'm eligible for it with the same two countries... but I have other friends that had to legally renounce theirs in order to become naturalized.

In any case.. she's going to need more than her word to establish anything... she's going to need documented proof from back them... like a birth certificate... which everyone did not even have back then as many people born back then did not have them..

AK lawyer · Sep 9, 2013, 02:51 PM

If she was born in the U.S. and "subject to the jurisdiction thereof", according to the 14th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution she was an American citizen. I believe the question is whether she renounced American citizenship before you were born. If she didn't, I believe you would be an American citizen unless you somehow renounced American citizenship after you became an adult.

tickle · Sep 9, 2013, 02:54 PM

Originally Posted by AK lawyer

If she was born in the U.S., and "subject to the jurisdiction thereof", according to the 14th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution she was an American citizen. I believe the question is whether she renounced American citizenship before you were born. If she didn't, I believe you would be an American citizen unless you somehow renounced American citizenship after you became an adult.

Thank u AK. I am sure our immigration expert 'lawandwee' will input.

Alty · Sep 9, 2013, 03:29 PM

This is more involved than just looking something up online. It requires an expert in the law, and immigration. Hopefully our expert will be along shortly.

I was born In Germany. My parents moved to Canada in 1974, when I was 3 1/2 years old.

To this day, almost 40 years later, I am still a German citizen. But I was born in Germany. Had I been born in Canada (like my children) I'd be a Canadian citizen, even though my parents were German citizens until the day they died.

For instance. I am a German citizen, my children are Canadian because they were born in Canada. They do not qualify for dual citizenship. Heck, even I don't. I have to choose. If I give up my German citizenship, and apply for Canadian citizenship, that's it.

But that's for Germany, and Canada. I have no idea what the laws are for the US and Bermuda.

Wait for the expert. :)

smoothy · Sep 9, 2013, 03:40 PM

The mother was born in 1918... when most births were still at home... and few birth certificates were issued for people born at home... she left as a child... never to return.. long before Social Security was established... therefore she has no SSN .

Being able to find anyone that can attest to her birth is essentially impossible due to her advanced age... (about the only way to prove they ere actually born here) Because I know people born in the 1930's and 40's that never had a birth certificate and needed to get passports, and how hard that was to get.

EVERYTHING would hinge on the unlikely event she ( the mother) was born in a hospital... had a birth certificate issued... AND still have a copy of it.

tickle · Sep 9, 2013, 04:01 PM

Originally Posted by smoothy

The mother was born in 1918....when most births were still at home...and few birth certificates were issued for people born at home...she left as a child....never to return..long before Social Security was established...therefore she has no SSN .

Being able to find anyone that can attest to her birth is essentially impossible due to her advanced age....(about the only way to prove they ere actually born here) Because I know people born in the 1930's and 40's that never had a birth certificate and needed to get passports, and how hard that was to get.

EVERYTHING would hinge on the unlikely event she ( the mother) was born in a hospital...had a birth certificate issued...AND still have a copy of it.

My mom was born in Toronto in 1914. She had a birth cert. and got a passport when she was 70. I still have both. So I am quite sure all major hospitals in the US of 1918 were able to do the same function.

tickle · Sep 9, 2013, 04:03 PM

Originally Posted by tickle

My mom was born in Toronto in 1914. She had a birth cert. and got a passport when she was 70. I still have both. So I am quite sure all major hospitals in the US of 1918 were able to do the same function.

Oh and yes, she had a SIN.

smoothy · Sep 9, 2013, 04:47 PM

Originally Posted by tickle

My mom was born in Toronto in 1914. She had a birth cert. and got a passport when she was 70. I still have both. So I am quite sure all major hospitals in the US of 1918 were able to do the same function.

Those actually born in a Hospital as you say.. would not have had the same issues.

In 1938 50% were born at home in the USA and the number was on a decline at that time... (haven't found stats for earlier other than in 1900 90% were born at home)

But you would be surprised... in 1918 in the USA most deliveries were by midwives at home. Particularly outside the cities. All my aunts and uncles were born at home... my mom around 1940... ( I an not being specific for a reason). And I had a LOT of aunts and uncles. Big family.

None of them had actual birth certificates... and I was a teenager when my mom went through all the legal hoops to get paperwork to get a passport without one...

She was lucky there were people still alive that were adults that could testify to her live birth.. as to when and where exactly. I do remember it took a long time and it wasn't easy.

Also Social Security didn't even come into effect until the great depression so anyone born in 1918 and left the country forever as a child... would never have been issued a SSN (Social Security number). Since that program didn't even start until 1937. Under Theodore Roosevelt.

Of course however... the OP needs to clarify if their Mother will be able to prove she was born here.

Alty · Sep 9, 2013, 07:05 PM

Originally Posted by smoothy

Those actually born in a Hospital as you say..would not have had the same issues.

In 1938 50% were born at home in the USA and the number was on a decline at that time...(haven't found stats for earlier other than in 1900 90% were born at home)

But you would be surprised....in 1918 in the USA most deliveries were by midwives at home. particularly outside the cities. All my aunts and uncles were born at home...my mom around 1940....( I an not being specific for a reason). And I had a LOT of aunts and uncles. Big family.

None of them had actual birth certificates .....and I was a teenager when my mom went through all the legal hoops to get paperwork to get a passport without one...

She was lucky there were people still alive that were adults that could testify to her live birth..as to when and where exactly. I do remember it took a long time and it wasn't easy.

Also Social Security didn't even come into effect until the great depression so anyone born in 1918 and left the country forever as a child....would never have been issued a SSN (Social Security number). Since that program didn't even start until 1937. Under Theodore Roosevelt.

Of course however...the OP needs to clarify if their Mother will be able to prove she was born here.

I get what you're saying.

I don't know a lot about Canada, but my mom, and all her siblings (11 total) were born at home starting in the late 1920's and ending in the 1940's in Germany. We moved to Canada in 1974. I'm actually not sure how they managed it. We had (and to this day I have) landed immigrant status. I've never seen a birth certificate for my mother. I have all their paperwork, and it's not there. They did have passports.

Same with my dad. Actually, that was even more intense. My dad was born in Hungary, at home, with a midwife, moved to Germany during WWII, then immigrated to Canada in 1974. I also don't have a birth certificate for him.

Now, my Oma, my dad's mom, moved from Hungary to Germany during the war. She and all her siblings were born at home. Her mother, born at the tail end of the 1800's, also moved with them. All children were born at home at that time. In fact, my Oma once told me that when she was born, the "doctor" that delivered her immediately pierced her ears. That was the norm for girls.

My Oma also immigrated from Hungary to Germany and then to Canada. She actually came to Canada many years before my parents did. Not sure how.

I'm guessing that access to birth certificates wasn't as strict back then, but that's just a guess.

Fr_Chuck · Sep 9, 2013, 07:16 PM

The issue here is, that the OP has not given us full details, and they may not even know them at this point. Did they take citizenship of another country, did they give us US citizenship There are also other issues to the child having citizenship.

Alty · Sep 9, 2013, 07:18 PM

Originally Posted by Fr_Chuck

The issue here is, that the OP has not given us full details, and they may not even know them at this point. Did they take citizenship of another country, did they give us US citizenship There are also other issues to the child having citizenship.

I agree wholeheartedly.

Fr_Chuck · Sep 9, 2013, 07:52 PM

Also, I have deleted some very rude comments and also, where these were copied and replied to.

If you dsagree, normally you post what you think is the correct answer, you may disagree, but no need in name calling.

newacct · Sep 9, 2013, 08:07 PM

Originally Posted by Fr_Chuck

The issue here is, that the OP has not given us full details, and they may not even know them at this point. Did they take citizenship of another country, did they give us US citizenship There are also other issues to the child having citizenship.

"Did they take the citizenship of another country" is not relevant. Under U.S. law, other countries' citizenships cannot have any effect on U.S. citizenship or the passing on of U.S. citizenship. Only whether they had U.S. citizenship at birth according to the law (which only depends on the parent's residence in the U.S. and marital status), and whether they renounced or intended to give up U.S. citizenship, matter.