[dwashbur]

I have never really been able to unscramble this verse so it makes complete sense. The quandary concerns that little two-word phrase (in Greek; in English it's three words) "in the Lord." Does it go with "obey" or with "parents"? It makes a difference.

If it means "obey in the Lord" then it is subtly saying there are times when disobedience is okay, when it goes against what the Lord says. But this has never been a big concern of Paul's elsewhere, so it doesn't really make sense in this context.

If it means "parents in the Lord" then obviously the next step is to try and suss out what that means. I confess I haven't a clue.

It appears that this little phrase was confusing enough that some scribes thought it was a mistake and left it out. Many old and important manuscripts don't have it; they just read "children, obey your parents because this is right." It's possible that some scribes added "in the Lord" later, but I don't see a good reason for anyone to do this because it just muddies up the passage. So I tentatively conclude that yes, Paul wrote it. Now, what the heck did he mean by it?

Thoughts?

[classyT]

Dave,

Interesting. I guess I always thought it meant I was to obey my parents. I thought the "in the Lord" meant making sure that my parents were parenting me properly. You know, not asking me to steal, kill, all that. I can't and shouldn't obey them if they are asking me to sin. But I don't know I never thought it was awkward there... it made sense to me.


EDIT
There was a young boy in a Sunday School class I taught. His parents were not saved but sent him every Sunday. His father was trouble he actually killed a man and asked this young boy to help dump the body in a lake. The kid did. I know that is a severe case, but the kid was under no obligation to obey his father in this instance. There are times when parents will ask a kid to lie... I believe this is the kind of thing Paul is addressing.

[N0help4u]

Yes, IN the Lord means more of YOUR attitude toward honoring your parents. You are to show respect, obey and honor. But you also have to make sure you are doing God's will when it comes to things you know are contrary to God. If they ask you to steal or do drugs with them or tell you you can not be a Christian, then you have to find some way of getting around it IN the Lord. IN the Lord does not mean if your parents are in the Lord.

[classyT]

Nohelp

I agree. The Lord set up the family and expects parents to take their rightful places. How would it be honoring to the Lord if his own children didn't obey their parents because the parents weren't saved. Naaah... it can't be

[dwashbur]

The problem is word order. "In the Lord" comes at the very end of the sentence, after "yours" (in Greek "of you"). If it modifies "obey" then the structure is very strange. Throw in the fact that, as far as I know, there's not another Greek passage that uses this kind of expression, and it makes it dubious. But whether it's "obey (in the Lord) your parents" or "obey your (parents in the Lord)" I'm not sure how we get as much as you guys did out of that little two-word phrase.

[classyT]

Dave,

Hmmm? Don't like my conclusions. Well I don't think they are wrong. But in Peter he says something interesting:
“Submit yourselves to every ordinance of man for the lord’s sake: (I Pet. 2:13)

Could it be we are to obey for the LORD? I don't know just throwing that out there since you disliked my thoughts earlier.

By the way, if all I had to go on in my last post was "that little two-word phrase" then I could see how you would wonder how I came to that conclusion. But we are told in Acts by Peter to obey God over man. So it really wasn't that much of a stretch.

[Wondergirl]

Even the Bible commentaries don't understand that little phrase and its placement, and usually give two ways of looking at it.

[dwashbur]

I never said I didn't like your conclusions. I just said there are also other ways of looking at it. Your analysis is one of the two most common that WG mentioned, and it has much to commend it.

And the part about applying that two-word phrase to parents WAS reaching :P

[Fr_Chuck]

Paul in his other writings, often makes a comparison, as new Christians as babies, or children,

So it would not be out of context with his other writings for Paul to comment that children are to obey their parents, since to Paul we as Christians are children to obey God.

[N0help4u]

Exactly, in context with the chain of submission throughout the Bible God has his order.

[dwashbur]

Paul in his other writings, often makes a comparison, as new Christians as babies, or children,.

so it would not be out of context with his other writings for Paul to comment that children are to obey their parents, since to Paul we as Christians are children to obey God.

Can you develop this line of thought a little more for me?

[Fr_Chuck]

In this, while reading a lot of Paul, I see he makes comparisons to things of his time, a race for example, he often uses a parent child comparison, so if Paul sees a Christian as a child, then could we be looking at this as more the child in this is all Christians and the parent is God.

[InfoJunkie4Life]

I suppose I'm more in the same line of thought as classyT, at least in conclusion, however with a slight difference on reasoning.

First off, I would have to dispute FrChuck, unless by misunderstanding. The direct context of the verse is about literal family due to the use of both the father and mother in the following verse, and the plurality on the word parents. By indirect context of the passage, as it goes on to explain other relationships, parent to child, servant to master, etc.

Onward...
My reasoning, and direct answer to the OP, is that the verse can be looked at by a third (or I guess fourth) way, in that "in the Lord" directly modifies the command "Children obey your parents" rather than one or the other. You have to think of carrying out a command in the lord. A parallel scripture would be 1 Peter 2:13 where it talks about submitting to power. Not only is it similar in circumstance, it is also is similar in translation, KJV says submit to power "for the Lords sake" where Ephesians says "in the Lord."

You will find that both those parts come from the same word in the greek:kyrios. This is a name given to the Lord that refers to Him as one who has the power of deciding. Significant? He authored the Law which outlines the differences between right and wrong. Further more you will find that in (en) and for (dia) are synonyms of each other. Both can be translated as: in, with, or by.

If that doesn't help, try thinking of it as being translated as "because it is His will"

[N0help4u]

The Bible says God is the head of man, man the head of the wife, the parents head of the children. But in doing so, as 1 Peter 2.7 says, You husbands likewise, live with [your wives] in an understanding way, as with a weaker vessel, since she is a woman; and grant her honor as a fellow heir of the grace of life, so that your prayers may not be hindered.
Meaning even though the head is the head, they are not to abuse that authority. Ideally our relationships are to be as a chain of command but not in a dictatorship attitude.

https://bible.org/seriespage/taking-...1-peter-213-37

[dwashbur]

My reasoning, and direct answer to the OP, is that the verse can be looked at by a third (or I guess fourth) way, in that "in the Lord" directly modifies the command "Children obey your parents" rather than one or the other. You have to think of carrying out a command in the lord. A parallel scripture would be 1 Peter 2:13 where it talks about submitting to power. Not only is it similar in circumstance, it is also is similar in translation, KJV says submit to power "for the Lords sake" where Ephesians says "in the Lord."

Well and good; however, Paul gives several commands about parents and children, and as far as I know this is the only time he adds that little phrase. Why?

And just fyi, linguistically your way still has "in the Lord" modifying "obey." The question is, does it break down like this:

[Children [obey [your parents] in the Lord]]

Or does it break down like this:

[Children [obey [your parents in the Lord]]]

While I appreciate the answers so far, pretty much all of them are based more on theological grounds than on the actual language of the verse. I'm looking for explanations why Paul would use this particular phrase in this one spot and not in others, what he meant by it (which maybe impossible to glean given what little info we have), or if it's even original.

[Wondergirl]

I found this --

Ephesians 6:1 CJB (Complete Jewish Bible)

Children, what you should do in union with the Lord is obey your parents, for this is right.

And this --

Ephesians 6:1 Children, obey your parents because you belong to the Lord,* for this is the right thing to do.

(*Ephesians 6:1 Or, Children, obey your parents who belong to the Lord)

[jakester]

Hey Dave - so I was curious and decided to look up ἐν κυρίῳ (in the Lord). I did find that structure a few times (at least a cursory look yielded that). Here are a few references (all in Philippians):

1. Philippians 1:14 - And because of my chains, most of the brothers and sisters have become confident ἐν κυρίῳ and dare all the more to proclaim the gospel without fear.

1. Philippians 4:4- Rejoice ἐν κυρίῳ always. Again, I say rejoice.

1. Philippians 4:10 - I rejoiced greatly ἐν κυρίῳ that at last you renewed your concern for me. Indeed, you were concerned, but you had no opportunity to show it.

To me I think that is goes with “obey” based upon how I see Paul using that phrase in the verses referenced above. The reason to do something is connected with ἐν κυρίῳ…at least in my judgment. Also, from Chapter 5 through Chapter 6, Paul connects submission with reverence to the Lord as he gives practical advice to people ranging from wives, husbands, children, and slaves, on the issue of submission in everyday life. Each person is to do is unto the Lord, to the Lord, in the Lord…I don't know about you but I see these phrases to really be synonymous phrases; I think they are just essentially saying the same thing but sometimes Paul uses the phrases differently. Thoughts?

[dwashbur]

Those are good examples, and they do push the slider toward the idea that the phrase is an adverb. Thanks!

[graceyj20]

A bit late but some thoughts:

Corinthians 11:3 discusses family headship. While children are not mentioned directly if you correlate it with Ephesians 6:1-3 and other scriptures I'd say it's pretty clear children are supposed to be in subjection to their parents. This subjection, much like a wife to her husband is always relative to the overreaching headship principal that God is at the top of the ladder and that first and foremost we must follow his commands.

Consider Romans 13:1-2 "Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God. 2 Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation" (KJV)

While this scripture notes we need to be in subjection to the proper authorities, we know that the Paul and many others servants of God noted in the bible routinely disobeyed these authorities when their commands were in violation of Gods command to minister. Matthew 22:21: "Pay back Caesar's things to Caesar, but God's things to God." (NWT)

When Jesus was asked what the greatest command was he responded at Mark 12:29-30 "And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord: 30 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment." (KJV) Loving our God with our god with all our strength is always our first priority.

Swinging back to your original question, Ephesians 6:1 "Children, obey your parents in the Lord: for this is right" (KJV). I think when viewed in conjunction with the next few verses and the rest of the bible children's subjection to their parents is relative to everyone's first obligation to be subjective to God.