[Tam8365]

We were served a summons that gave us 21 days to contact the attorney the school hired to collect the debt. I called and made arrangements to pay. But before first payment a collection agency called and said we owed the finance co. Not the school. I called attorney took him a few weeks to call back he said he needed to check. About 2 weeks later he obtained a judgment and we were not aware of any court date and also we were not sure who we needed to pay. If we had been able to go to court we could have gotten this worked out. We got attorney to settle for 2100 instead of 4100 and he's been paid. But now our credit score is messed up and all the attorney will say is he's sorry. Anyway to fix this being we did not know who to pay this to at time judgment was received ?

[JudyKayTee]

Did you owe the debt? Did it go into collection? You settled for less than you owed?

Is that what your credit report says?

What is incorrect about what was reported? Once it got behind X days overdue and a collection agency and/or attorney was called in I don't see how it wouldn't be listed as a "slow pay" or "delinquent" debt on your credit report.

Or are you saying you never knew where to send the payments?

EDIT: What was illegal about the Judgment? Were you not served legally? Something else?

[Tam8365]

Just wanted to add that I live in Michigan and when I called attorney to ask what we needed to do because we had never been served anything before he said no that he would handle it from this point. Of coarse I have since learned that we needed to contact the clerk ourself. When I questioned the attorney why he filed this he said it was filed by mistake. We were in the middle of buying a home when we found out he filed this judgment and are now homeless and unable to buy something else with this on our credit report. I guess my questions are 1. can we get this over turned because we did not get anything to say he was taking us to court or seeking a judgment . 2. At time he got judgment we did not know if we needed to pay him who was hired by the school or the collection agency that the finance co. Hired. 3. We never got any kind of papers from him saying he was hired to collect this debt not even a phone call. Isn't he suppose to let us know ? Not just get a knock on the door. 4. I have his check that I'm sending can I negotiate with him and ask him to dismiss this case as part of the settlement ? Or is that blackmail?

[JudyKayTee]

1. If you were legally served you were put on notice that a lawsuit had been started. It was your responsibility to answer that complaint against you with similar papers. I gather you did not? If there was no formal response by you there is nothing legally that keeps the Plaintiff from continuing to a Judgment against you. Ethically - sounds like he make a mistake. I’m not sure it would have changed the overall outcome. You owed. You had to pay.

2 - You were not aware you owed on a loan? You knew you had a loan and had not been makign payments because you didn’t know who to pay? Something else?

3 - No one has to tell you that they are hiring anyone to collect a debt. Presumably you are aware of your legal financial obligations. I own a process service company. The firms I work for do not notify people that I am delivering papers.

4 - I don’t know what you “have his check that [you] sending” means. You have the settlement check but you aren’t going to send it unless/until the Attorney does... something? What do you want him to do?

You are making a bad situation worse. The Attorney/collection agency/school do not have to settle for pennies on the dollar. Can they change their minds? Yes, right up until the debt is paid.

Is there a Judgment against you? Was this your debt? Was it in arrears?

[ScottGem]

I don't see any grounds for getting the judgment overturned. You let this debt slip and now you are paying the price for doing so.

P.S. Please don't start multiple threads, Reply though this thread for follow-up.

[JudyKayTee]

I'd be curious to know how this debt "slipped through the cracks." Was it close to running out of Statute and so it was sued with no/little time to make calls, negotiate?

I fail to see how the inability to buy a home is the creditor's fault. If the mortgage was approved in my area, at least, and something else pops up you pay off the "something else" (for the full amount, not pennies on the dollar) and the mortgage goes forward.

I suspect that the "settle for less than you owe" part is what has cost you the house.

[Tam8365]

Let me explain we did not let this slip. My husband went to truck driving school and the co. He worked for paid for the school while he worked there plush we put money down for him to attend. We thought this was paid in full . Until we got the summons to contact the atty. Which I did.I did not want this to get further in the hole so I agreed to make payments until we could figure out the correct amt. I needed time to collect the amt. the truck driving school had paid them and what we had paid them. But before I could make the payment to the atty. That the school hired a collection agency called for the finance co. Saying we owed them not the school. I called the atty. To varify with him who to pay. He said he was mot sure needed to check.I had agreement with collection agency to pay them in full of 2100 if that is indeed who we owed . But judgment came in from the atty. Before we knew who to pay. That's all we needed was who to send the money to school or finance co. At no time did I ever tell the atty. We would not pay him . To this day I still have no idea if amt. was true just wanted to get it paid so it would not go to court. Please understand we did not just not pay someone and now want to blame them. If we had known this was out there we would have made arrangements to pay them We just did not get anything from the school or finance co. Saying there was money owed. It's like they went Streight to the collection process .

[ScottGem]

OK, Thanks for the clarification. It still doesn't make the judgment illegal, but I think it does give you some grounds for appeal.

The first thing I would try is to go to the court that issued the judgment and file a motion to vacate on the grounds of improper service. Hopefully you can get it vacated and get a new hearing. If that doesn't work, then you may need to appeal the judgment. At that point, you may want to consult an attorney.

Once you get the judgment squared away, then there may be some grounds for a suit for restitution because of improper (not illegal) actions. You seem to have suffered damages, loss of the house etc. due to the actions of the school and their agents.

[JudyKayTee]

Okay, what happened now makes sense.

I still think it's a valid judgment. I always respect Scott's answers, but I don't see any bad/illegal service here. You were served. My concern is that you have settled this for what you owe. If you attempt to reopen the judgment OR lose the "appeal" there is absolutely no reason that the creditor would accept less than the full amount, plus costs, interest, fees.

I would also be interested in the Statute - did the creditor move quickly because the debt was running out of Statute? It's not unusual to have a judgment entered while in the process of working out a settlement.

I just don't see any malpractice on the part of the Attorney. There is no requirement that you be notified before you are served or, if you don't respond, before the judgment is filed - and I'm not sure there weren't time constraints.

I also think that the Court may well take the position that you knew there was money owed in some amount and could have/should have been more proactive in settling the debt.

I think this was handled badly, very badly, and I think you are suffering for it. I just don't see malpractice or an illegal judgment.

[ScottGem]

Re reading the original post I'm more inclined to agree with Judy. You were given 21 days to respond to the summons. You did not do that. Therefore, the attorney requested a default judgment.

[JudyKayTee]

As far as legal service is involved - I was called in to testify about papers I served. The Defendants felt the service was illegal because (1) I didn't call first; (2) I was on their property (and I was never asked to leave. I served and left on my own); (3) and the topper - I was wearing jeans and didn't look like I was from a legal office.

There are all sorts of misunderstandings about legal service.

[Tam8365]

Ty everyone for your help. We did respond to the 21 day notice. The problem started when the collection agency called and said we were to pay them .I made a settlement agreement to pay them 2100.00 But we first needed them to find out who needed to be paid. They also were looking into this. I immediately called the atty. And asked him to clarify who this needed to be paid to. He was not sure said he would get back to me. He never called ,wrote or e mailed me anything to state I was to pay him. I also made calls to him but never called me back.
I also want to add that when credit
Report was pulled nothing showed up on it regarding this debt.
This was a loan that was taken out 3 yrs ago and we never got anything stating there was a balance owed.
The agreement with trucking co. was school to be paid off the first yr of employment . He was there a little over a yr. Some also came out of pay.
So getting the notice to pay 4100 is crazy but I did not want this to go any further so I made arrangements to pay payments ea. month. I needed time to research what was going on.
My complaint is he went and got the judgement when an agreement was made not to file and payment plan was in place. But we needed to know who to pay first. Also before we knew who to pay . I don't even know if he knew. I never got anything from him except the 21 day notice and then the judgment paper.
He did agree to take the same has the collection co. I have his 2100.00 now ( I was ready to put in mail when I wrote first post that he was paid) I would like him to vacate the judgment but can I request that as part of the settlement that he must vacate judgment or is that blackmail ?

[ScottGem]

I don't know if you received a notice of a court date. If you were not properly served notice of the hearing, that may be your only grounds to vacate.

Since the judgment has been ordered the plaintiff can't vacate it even as part of the settlement. You can ask that it be recorded as payment in full.

[JudyKayTee]

You had to respond to the summons according to the law - that involved a WRITTEN response with a defense and any relief you wanted within a certain time frame. Did you do that and did you do so within the 21 days?

I don’t understand the confusion over who would receive the settlement check. It would seem apparent to me that the certified check would be sent to the person/firm with whom you reached the settlement arrangement, copies to the “other” party (Attorney or collection agency, depending on which party received the original).

You made arrangements to pay $4,100 in monthly payments - when did you make this arrangement? You made this arrangement and made monthly payments as agreed and then you were served despite your performance in accordance with the agreement? Was the agreement in writing?

I see no agreement on the part of the Attorney/collection agency not to take this matter to Judgment. Perhaps you thought there was an agreement. Maybe nobody else thought so - and, again, was the statute (time frame in which a judgment could legally be obtained) running? If it’s a 4-year old debt I would expect that it was. But, again, you talked to someone. I don’t understand why you didn’t send the check to that person and let the two parties (collection agency and Attorney) “fight it out.” That would have protected you against what happened next and given you legal teeth of the matter had gone to judgment.

You either aren’t understanding the legal advice we are giving you OR you are choosing not to understand the advice. “I would like him to vacate the judgment but can I request that as part of the settlement that he must vacate judgment or is that blackmail ?” Why would he vacate the judgment? What reason would he have to do so? You have no legal reason that I can see to compel him to vacate the judgment. The debt wasn’t paid as required (apparently). You had 21 days to respond in writing and according to the “directi5ons” on the summons. You did not (apparently).

If you are saying you are going to request anything as “part of the settlement” you are saying there WAS no settlement (it’s still being negotiated) and “they,” therefore, had every reason to get the judgment against you.

If you are saying you are going to withhold the money unless/until the judgment is vacated “they” drop all settlement negotiations and enforce the judgment by any means legal in your
State - they will take a portion of your salary (or salaries), lien against bank accounts, do whatever it takes to collect.

“They” are also not going to take pennies on the dollar if you don’t settle in a timely fashion.

I see absolutely no chance to get this vacated, but if you are determined to go ahead keep in mind that there are time restrictions. You saw what happens when you didn’t respond to the Summons within 21 days. You also need to be within certain time frames if you try to set the judgment aside.

I think you are being foolish - but if you choose to go ahead, please keep “us” informed.

(I'm not sure you had to be notified of the Court date. At that point it was by default. I see no need to further contact you - but I haven't looked at the law. If you DO get the judgment overturned, what then? Another Judgment in the full amount, another report to the credit report agency.)

[Tam8365]

Ty Judy for your opinion but you are missing that I did respond to the 21 day notice. When I contacted the atty. He also was confused on why there was someone else calling us on this. The reason for not paying was that there was two people from different business wanting this money. A finance co. Who said we owed them not school that school was paid. They also did not know why an atty. Was calling us . Basically in today's scam world you need to find out who money would be sent to. Neither the collection agency or the atty. Was in contact with each other to get it I resolved. I am not trying to keep this going but you keep saying I did not contact them within the 21 days but I did. So I appreciate your responses . Also the atty. Admitted that his assistant was not to file this but some how it got mixed up with the ones to be filed. So my point is he admitted to the mistake. If he was wrong then he should fix it. I will let everyone know the out come . Thanks again everyone and Tim I thank you for your advise I think you are the only one understanding what I am saying and I am going to do what you have suggested.

[Tam8365]

I'm sorry I mean Scott . We never got anything from this atty. I must have made. 20 call plus calls to his office. I think everyone thinks we slacked on getting ahold of people to get resolved. But we did not it was difficult to get anyone to call me back. I think you should understand that people get scammer everyday and I did not want that to happen to us. Anyway sorry for responding to you guys again just wanted to get name correct. Scott can you answer? If he admitted to me that he was not to file this would that not be a reason to vacate? He admitted that I kept in contact with him about this kept calling his office after the judgment to get it settled but he never would call me back I finally got him on phone a few days ago to reach the settlement agreement that to collection agency telling them he had the right to collect and to back off. He just sent them that letter. Again after judgment. If I was able to go to. Court I would have explained that to judge and paid them that day. But was not given that chance. It's just a mess but I am going to work on this until I can get something done. Will keep everyone updated.

[ScottGem]

You say you did respond to the summons. But you haven't detailed what that response was.

But what I have been saying is that, if you never received a notice about the hearing, you may be able to get the judgment vacated on those grounds.

Again, the plaintiff cannot vacate the judgment, they can only declare it satisfied.

[JudyKayTee]

Okay - maybe it’s me. It’s early in the AM and I’ve had two cups of coffee. Let me try it again. I appreciate your frustration, by the way, but you are confusing “fair” and “legal.” The caps don’t mean I’m shouting at you. They are for emphasis:

My specific questions (and comments are):

You were required BY LAW to file a WRITTEN response to the summons within a certain time frame, possibly 21 days. Did you do that IN WRITING and within that time frame. This response would have been both your answer to the claim and any relief you want(ed) from the creditor. You could have called until the cows came home - that would not change the LEGAL requirement that you file in writing.

You say: “We never got anything from this atty. I must have made. 20 call plus calls to his office. I think everyone thinks we slacked on getting ahold of people to get resolved. but we did not it was difficult to get anyone to call me back. I think you should understand that people get scammer everyday and I did not want that to happen to us.”

You DID get something from the Attorney - a written summons (and, apparently, Complaint). Your telephone calls are meaningless. You were required to file a written response. I do understand that people get scammed every day (I’m an investigator). Hindsight is 20/20, but you could have called the Court to see if the documents were legitimate. The Attorney had absolutely no legal “duty” to speak to you on the telephone. Yes, it would have been nice and courteous but, again, this is about the legal system and what you were REQUIRED to do, by law.

If this is a law firm which deals in collection matters it gets literally hundreds of telephone calls a day from people who want to argue, want to explain, want to negotiate. It was not the Attorney’s duty to straighten this out. He/she had nothing personally to win and/or lose. You did.

“Scott can you answer? If he admitted to me that he was not to file this would that not be a reason to vacate? He admitted that I kept in contact with him about this kept calling his office after the judgment to get it settled but he never would call me back I finally got him on phone a few days ago to reach the settlement agreement that to collection agency telling them he had the right to collect and to back off. He just sent them that letter. Agin after judgment. If I was able to go to. Court I would have explained that to judge and paid them that day. But was not given that chance. It's just a mess but I am going to work on this until I can get something done. Will keep everyone updated.”

Unfortunately Scott is not here so you’re stuck with me. What does he “was not to file” mean? Again, what was the Statute of Limitation on the debt? If you think you can go to Court, spend little money and probably quite a bit of time, and get the Judgment set aside - then what do you think will happen? It will still be on your credit report as a debt that went to collection AND there is a very good possibility that the creditor will no longer agree to settle for a lesser amount. You can’t argue the Attorney broke his agreement/contract with you by filing the Judgment after he “promised” he would not and then argue that the agreement/contract to pay a lessor amount is still valid. It’s either a valid agreement or it’s not.

You refer to scammers - you wouldn’t have been the first nor would you have been the last debtor who dragged things out until the Statute expired and then the creditor couldn’t collect. This Attorney doesn’t know you. He knows that there is a debt which is unpaid. It’s not his job to unravel the ball of yarn that explains why it’s not paid. It’s his job to collect - and move on to the next debt which has not been paid. I know it sound harsh, but that’s how it works.

I’ll throw another question into the mix - if the employer should have paid this debt and did not, leaving you with the entire debt, why aren’t you pursuing the employer? That’s what I’d be doing.

Bottom line - what is it that you want out of this mess?

[Tam8365]

Ty Judy for your response . The statute is not up for 3 more yrs so I am not trying to let it run out. This did not and does not show up on our credit report. If it had they would have gotten paid and I would have inquired to the truck co. As to why they had not gotten paid. It is not the finance co./schools fault they deserve to be paid which is why we will pay them and we will then seek a refund from the truck co. And if they were paid then I will seek a refund of my money.
But anyway just wanted to update everyone the atty. Is going to dismiss/vacate the judgment. He agreed that his office acted prematurely in filing and that I did everything I could to get this to settle before it did go to judgment . So Judy that is that is what I wanted exactly what I got. I want you to know Judy we were not trying to get out of paying this and we were not trying to use statue to get out either. So please do not assume everyone does that

[JudyKayTee]

I never said that's what you were trying to do - I'm saying the Attorney runs a collection business and needs to keep an eye on the Statute.