[kepi]

I wish to convert to Judaism, but my greatest fear is circumcision. I did a little bit of reseach, and I found out that Judaism has a branch called "reform Judaism", but I also read that it is not accepted by the more conservative Jews.

Should I convert or remain religionless but uncut? It is my absolute greatest and deepest fear that I would rather die than get cut.

[RubyPitbull]

Kepi (like the name choice), let's talk this out rationally. Maybe I can help you make a decision.

First off, reformed Judaism is a more relaxed take on the religion and everyone in it has their own way of worshipping. Some observe the Friday night sabbath rituals, some don't. It is a lot more complicated than that but we can talk about the differences later if you choose to respond. Conservative is the next rung up the ladder, so to speak. Then comes, Orthodox. Then, Ultra Orthodox. To a certain extent, although others will argue with me over this, it is like all the different sects that we find that have risen out of Christianity.

With all of that being said, usually, whether you are reformed or Ultra Orthodox, circumcision is one of the basic rituals in Judaism. Your fear of it, being a grown man, is quite understandable. Is it necessary? It depends on what your intentions or reasonings for conversions are.

So, let's start there. What is your reasoning for converting to Judaism? Do you have an overwhelming desire to convert because you believe that this is the right religion for you? Are you converting because you plan on marrying someone who is Jewish and her family won't accept you if you are not Jewish? Is your intention to immerse yourself wholly in the religion?

Please let me know. I will be happy to help you find your way through this. I am sure there will be others on this forum who will weigh in at some point as well.

[kepi]

What is your reasoning for converting to Judaism?
I just feel right. I have looked at the Reform Judaism, and everything about it makes me feel like I beling. I have read the rules that are followed that differenciate from those of Orthodox, and I just absolutely want to belong

Do you have an overwhelming desire to convert because you believe that this is the right religion for you?
Yes. That simple. I can't explain why, I just feel Judaism is the right religion for me. I want to raise my kids Jewish.'

Are you converting because you plan on marrying someone who is Jewish and her family won't accept you if you are not Jewish?
No, more of a personal option, but I think I would like a Jewish wife.

Is your intention to immerse yourself wholly in the religion?
I don't really know what you mean by this, but what I take it as is I want it to be one of the biggest parts of my life.

[RubyPitbull]

Okay, Kepi. I have a better idea of where you are coming from on this. I should have thought of this before and I hope you don't mind me asking but, how old are you? I am gathering from your responses that you might be a teenager?

FYI, immersing yourself wholly in the religion means that you embrace it completely. You pretty much understood what I was asking. Every waking action you take in your life will be based upon whether it is allowed in Judaism and what the consequences of those actions will have upon your standing with God, the Judaic faith, and your Judaic community. It will be the driving force of your life.

So, the next question I have is the one asked above, how old are you and are you American born? I know you might not think this is important, but it is if you are considering a change of faith to one that includes circumcision as a big part of the religious practice.

If you are American born, did your parents opt not to have you circumcised in the hospital when you were born? Since World War II, most male babies, until the past 10 years or so, were automatically circumcised when they were born in U.S. hospitals. It had to do with the belief that it was a health issue. Supposedly, men who are not circumcised have a tendency to get more infections. Unless the parents were adamantly opposed, non-Jews were circumcised in the hospital pretty much automatically. Jewish families chose to bring the baby home and 8 days after the baby was born, he would go through the religious ritual of a bris, his circumcision performed by a Mohel. Big celebration, very unhappy baby for a day or two. :)

Anyway, my point in explaining this is, although you seem very bright, I don't know how young you are and if you haven't already been circumcised without realizing it. Please don't be insulted by this. I just know that sometimes, there are some people out there that really honestly don't know. I am not kidding. It has nothing to do with stupidity but with a lack of fully knowing the human body. So, I guess the other question is, are you absolutely positive that you are not already circumcised. Do you still have that flap of skin that covers the head of penis?

The other question I have is, have you researched all the religions that are out there, learned about them fully and completely to be able to make a well informed choice? There are Jews who have chosen to become Buddhist because it is a religion that makes more sense to them. Just remember, this is going to effect the way you live the rest of your life and the decisions you make. I am trying to make sure that you have left no stone unturned here in making your decision.

Is there a temple anywhere near where you live? If there is, I would suggest that you make an appointment with the Rabbi. Most are very open to this kind of discussion and you will be surprised at how they will not try to talk you into anything. To convert to Judaism, there are a number of questions they will ask, as I am doing now. They don't want someone to convert without having a full understanding of what it is that they are getting themselves into. They can be very kind and helpful in your decision making process.

Please let me know your thoughts on all of this and the answers to my questions. Shalom. :)

[ScottGem]

Just to add some things here Judiasm is somewhat unique among major religions in that it does not seek converts. In fact, most rabbis will discourage conversion. Most conversions occur because of marriage.

For someone to convert to Reform Judiasm is somewhat odd, therefore. Usually a convert to Judiasm for reasons other than marriage, would want to be a more orthodox jew.

Have you spoken to a rabbi? If not, that's your first step. I would have some conversations with a rabbi to gauge your sincerity and commitment.

As for the circumcision, I can easily understand your fear and concern. But its really not that bad (from a surgical standpoint). You can be anethestitized and won't feel a thing. While any surgical procedure involves risks, they would be extremely minimal.

[RubyPitbull]

LOL. ScottGem, finally got you to stop by! LOL Have to spread some rep but I agree with you. Having the discussion with the Rabbi is probably the best suggestion we can give. Kepi, ScottGem is right. Rabbis don't actively recruit. They usually are very kind when a young person shows interest. They will give you quite a bit to think about. It is a very good place to start without feeling pressured.

[kepi]

Yes, I am a teenager, 17 in fact.
And I was born in Mexico where circumcision rates are about 1 out of a million. I have yet to talk to a Rabbi, and yes I have researched other religions thoroughly. I looked at Orthodox/ Conservative/ and Reform Judaism. When I was reading about Reform Judaism, I felt like I had finally, after many months, found the one. Not only did it say that circumcision was not necessary, but it had all the beliefs I wanted to live my life by. But if you think that circumcision (which I have also researched) is absolutely necessary, then... I don't know. Like I said, I just cannot imagine getting it nipped off.

[RubyPitbull]

Kepi, no I personally do not think that it is absolutely necessary at all. It is one of those things that some people believe is the ultimate commitment to the faith. I truly do think it would do you a world of good to locate some temples in your area and set up some appointments with the Rabbis. It sounds like you have done the right things so far. As ScottGem states, Rabbis will speak to you about your sincerity and commitment. The right one can really help you. Besides, if you do decide to convert, you need a Rabbi willing to put in the time to teach you the studies necessary to become a convert. In Judaism, if you are really serious about converting, there is a great deal that you have to learn and study in order to be accepted as a true convert. Or, you could just start going to a reformed temple near you and see if you enjoy the services. But, if you want to understand what is going on during the services and what everything means, you do need to study with a Rabbi.

[ScottGem]

Some additional points here. What religion were you raised in? What has disenchanted you about that religion. Since the three major religions are all built on the same foundation (often called the judeo-christian ethic), they all have very similar ethical beliefs. The major differences between the religions are not the core beliefs but they way they practice them.

I'm sure you have done a good deal of research, but if you haven't talked to a rabbi you haven't done enough research. Converting to Judaism is probably the hardest religious conversion to make.

Getting back to circumcision, I honestly don't know if the conversion riutual would require it. I would certainly say that a jewish girl would be very surprised to find you uncircumcised. Having never to have dealt with a foreskin myself, I can't comment on whether I would miss it. However, being a male, I can certainly understand the reluctance to have any sharp implement come in contact with that area.

So we come back to you finding a reform temple and talking to the rabbi.

[kepi]

Thank you very much, RubyPitbull:D

[kepi]

ScottGem, I was raised in an extremely orthodox conservative Catholic home.

I did come across the conversion process, and I undestand it.

And you cannot imagine how extremely sensitive it is. It would be like having a 100 needles go through the glans at once. (For me... )

[ScottGem]

Not sure what conversion method you refer to. As I understand it its more than a static process. The first step though is talking to a rabbi.

I am also wondering whether you have fully considered there effect this will have on your family. If its as you describe, this may completely alienate you from them.

As to the sensitivity, again you will be anesthitzed and won't feel a thing.

[kepi]

I meant process into Reform.

And I am talking about the pain AFTER the surgery.

And my family says that I can choose to live my life the way I want it, and yes, it would probably alienate me from them, but it's a risk I am more than willing to take.

[RubyPitbull]

Kepi, I think Scott has brought up a very important issue regarding your family. I have a feeling that they will not allow you to do ANY conversion of faith before you are 18. So, as we both have suggested, why don't you have a sit down with a Rabbi. It is the best place to start. If you are sincere and feel that this is what you want to do, he will help you. Conversion to Judaism is a long process and there is a lot to learn.

[excon]

Hello kepi:

You don't have to wack off part of your business to be a Jew. YOU DON'T! Being a Jew is much more than circumcision. Circumcision isn't required anyway. It's more of a tradition. So's getting bar-mitzved at 13. I didn't get bar-mitzved, and I'm still a Jew. And, a bar-mitzvah is a much bigger event in a Jews life than circumcision. As a matter of fact, I can't even remember being circumcised.

Ok, I'm kidding about the last, but not the rest.

By the way, have you seen the Seinfeld episode where the dentist was trying to convert to Judaism? Seinfeld was sure it was for the jokes. He could be right.

excon

[ScottGem]

As a matter of fact, I can't even remember being circumcised.

Ok, I'm kidding about the last, but not the rest.

You remember it? I sure don't. :D

[RubyPitbull]

By the way, have you seen the Seinfeld episode where the dentist was trying to convert to Judaism? Seinfeld was sure it was for the jokes. He could be right.
excon

I know I pretend to be Jewish just for the jokes.

[kepi]

I hope you are right, excon.

[ScottGem]

And I am talking about the pain AFTER the surgery.

Check with a surgeon, but I can't imagine there would be anything more that a little discomfort from that procedure.

[kepi]

I shall contact a Rabbi and then a surgeon. But if it s avoidable...