[hkstroud]

Sorry no heat sink nipples.

I just can't believe that debris in your heater could have blocked a 3/4" pipe. Nor can I accept that debris went to all of your faucets and clogged up every one.

Try visually following the hot water piping. There has to be something between the water heater and where the hot piping branches off to each bath and the kitchen that is blocked. Plumbers don't (shouldn't) put valves inside walls so you should be able to see any valve along the way.

In order to block all the faucets what ever it is has to be between the heater and where pipes branch off.

[lorensandboe]

Ok, more images - I was able to twist off the hot water out pipe, here's what I've got:

http://i.imgur.com/d5mqBHx.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/iDngEmK.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/aU2AWOh.jpg

There seems to be a kind of bearing or marble in there, so I can't stick a coat hanger down to check for plugs like I hoped, heh. Also seems to be no plug on the upper end of that pipe either.

Edit - that said, this thing whatever it is looks pretty clean, not like a great amount of debris is clogging it up. I also doubt that it's a clog, there were small grains floating in the water while I was cleaning but there were no large pieces that could have done that.

Oh and yeah, I know I'll need to re-teflon tape that, heheh. I have some.

Edit2: I was able to move the marble a bit, so it doesn't seem to be seized.

[hkstroud]

I'm wrong those are heat sink nipples. You will need to replace. I think I would just replace with a pipe nipple and not worry with the heat sinks anymore.

I don't see how you unscrewed the pipes with out messing up the PEX connection. Be careful when turning water back on, you may have a leak.

I think I would cut the copper pipes at some convenient place. Screw the copper back own to the water heater, then reconnect the copper with Shark bite couplings. Hope that you haven't screw up the PEX connection. Requires a special tool to redo.

[lorensandboe]

Well, it doesn't seem to be feasible to remove the heat nipple to see what's going on underneath, so I guess there's not much left to do here since I've confirmed there's no visible plug above it... the heat sink nipple is really in there, and there isn't enough edge to pry it out.

Edit - hm, unless I try and fill up the tank again very gradually to see if that marble will allow water through? I'll have to be precise with turning the water off as soon as I see if it does...

Edit 2 - just saw your full reply. Considering my options, hah. As far as the pipe unscrewing, it did require twisting of the upper pipes which jumped once or twice but everything still seems intact. I will be sure to watch that though. In for a penny, in for a pound I guess.

[hkstroud]

Get a screw driver and see if you can break out the plastic part and remove the ball. Especially on the hot side.

It late and the plumbing store is closed. I would close the cold water input valve. Turn on the water and see if I had a leak in the PEX connection. If I didn't, I would wait until I could get the Shark bite couplings. If you don't have a leak already you don't want to create one. If you get a leak in the cold water line you won't have any water until you can repair.

[lorensandboe]

I'm not losing anything by removing the ball?

[hkstroud]

Only the heat trap function. Which is what has caused you all this work.

It is of course up to you, but I would do away with the heat trap nipples. They have already caused you more work than they are worth.

If you decide to do away with them and can get the ball out then you will have just regular pipe nipples. You won't have to worry about a leak where they screw into the water heater like you would if you replaced them with a regular nipple.

If you decide to keep the heat traps you should remove and replace them at this time.

Just for your information a nipple is the plumbers term for a short piece of pipe. So when I say replace them with a regular nipple, I mean a short piece of pipe.

So a heat trap nipple is just a short piece of pipe with the ball and its plastic cage in it.

[massplumber2008]

Try this...

Stick a screwdriver into the heat trap nipple and push the ball down. Now, while the ball is down, turn the cold water supply on SLOWLY... jiggle the screwdriver up and down and let's see if you can flush the crud that's clogging this nipple out of the nipple. Put a towel on top of the heater to catch the mess. Eventually, you should be able to clear this and then put all back together if the nipple isn't too damaged.

Otherwise, if the nipple is too damaged or you just want to get rid of it, you put a wrench on the old heat trap nipple and part of the THREADS of the nipple you should have plenty of space to get a wrench on the nipple and get a good bite on the nipple to remove it. Using a larger wrench or a wrench with a long piece of pipe over the end would also help create more leverage to remove. A friend may be necessary her to give a good hold on the heater while you try to unscrew the nipple.

After that, as Harold said, do away with the heat trap nipple and install a new DIELECTRIC NIPPLE (see image... no ball inside these). These nipples are available at all home improvement stores and will prevent an electolytic effect that can take place between dissimilar metals (steel tank and metal nipples or nipples and copper fitting) and cause minerals to deposit between the metals that create the same clogging issue we are seeing now. Regular brass nipples should not be used.

After you install the nipples (using teflon tape AND pipe dope on the threads), you should insulate the first 10 feet of hot water pipe coming out of the heater. This is where the greatest heat loss is from the heater.


Good luck!

Mark

[lorensandboe]

Ahh... good morning everyone :) Another day without a shower for me, haha...

So you guys think there must be a nipple that extends underneath the surface of the shell of the water heater, kind of like this?:

http://i.imgur.com/CUwzxLO.jpg

What is the function of a heat trap nipple?

I believe I will first try what Mark suggests, slow cold water supply on the existing nipple and see if anything comes out / if I can flush it out.

If that proves fruitless then I will try to break out that plastic bit and the marble inside, and if that also doesn't seem to be enough then I will replace it with a Dielectric Nipple as Mark has shown.

I'll keep you informed. Thanks!

[hkstroud]

That little piece of pipe sticking up is a nipple.
What you have now is a heat trap nipple. It is suppose to save you some money by separating the water in the tank from the water in the pipe. The little ball does that. That is suppose to reduce the heat that is lost in the pipe.

Mark wants you to replace that with a different type. When two different metals are in contact with each other corrosion can occur. Mark wants you to replace your existing nipple with that type. Called a dielectric nipple and to insulate the pipe to reduce the heat loss. Getting that nipple out and the new one in might give you some problems.

If you just break out the plastic and remove the ball you will no longer have heat trap nipples. Just regular nipples.


BEFORE YOU DO ANYTHING, GET THOSE SHARK BITE COUPLINGS. DON'T TRY PUTTING THE COPPER PIPE BACK ON THE WATER HEATER WITH OUT THEM.

[lorensandboe]

Well, I have determined that water comes out of that nipple just fine...

http://i.imgur.com/MI1KZwz.jpg

It flowed out very freely, no indication of a plug whatsoever. Which is good and bad, because now it seems to me that if I AM dealing with a plug, the only place it can be is somewhere up here... (as indicated by the red line) being that it is affecting every tap in the house and that this is the first intersection in the pipe:

http://i.imgur.com/BoVJjB8.jpg

I shoved an unbent coathanger as far up this pipe as I could, and hit nothing at all.

Ok, a question re: Shark Bite Couplings. In order to use a Shark Bite Coupling in this instance, to put the hot water line back onto the nipple coming out of the tank, would I not need to cut off the nut-end of this pipe?

http://i.imgur.com/u4IgaNe.jpg

This is my only reference for how Shark Bite Couplings work: How to use Sharkbite Plumbing - YouTube and it seems like that's what would be necessary?

[hkstroud]

No. The fact that you now have water coming out the hot side does not mean that you have a blockage further up the line. It only means that when you unscrewed the copper from the water heater you made the little ball fall back down. Water will now flow out the hot water pipe. However, the little ball will probably get stuck again at some later time.

If you don't have a leak in the cold water line where the PEX piping connects to the copper (or some other place further up the PEX) you should turn to the east and thank the plumbing gods.

What I want you to do do is get the Shark bite couplings and a tubing cutter. Cut the copper pipe at some convenient place, say about half way up. Screw the lower half of the copper back onto the water heater. Then put the Shark bite coupling on the other end. They are what is call a push on type fitting. You just push them on to the pipe and they lock in place with a water tight seal. You the put the other piece of copper pipe in the other end of the coupling. The Shark bite type fittings save you having to learn how to solder pipe.

Twisting that copper pipe inside the PEX pipe fitting is going to create a big problem for you.

Obviously you have reconnected the cold water input to the water heater. I am amazed that you didn't create a leak. I would not take a chance on doing the same thing on the hot water side. If you create a leak at a PEX fitting you will have to rent a special tool to fix it.

So check the cold water line for leaks. Get two Shark bite couplings for 3/4" pipe. Get a removal tool just in case you need to remove a pipe form the Shark bite. Only cost about a $1.
Get a tubing cutter to cut the copper. Ever used a tubing cutter?

[lorensandboe]

Actually I never removed the cold water input to the water heater, I only removed the hot water out after I had turned off the cold water in. Sorry, I realize some of my photos may be confusing because I took them from the other side of the water heater... I have only ever disconnected the hot water out line.

http://i.imgur.com/67eAIxE.jpg

As such there's no reason why I would have created a leak on the cold water in line. So I'm not worried about that. I was a bit rough on the hot water out line though so that's possible. Putting it back together with a Shark Bite sounds like a good idea though.

So either way it sounds like you're recommending I remove the current nipple on the hot water out side. That's the nipple I have exposed.

I haven't personally used a tubing cutter but my brother who is much handier than I am has one, and he's going to come over with it. The two of us will replace that nipple and then use a Shark Bite to put the copper pipe back on.

[hkstroud]

OK, the fact that you did not try to take out the cold water line makes me feel a lot better.

Cut the hot water out pipe about 12 to 16" up from the water heater. Then use the Shark bite to reconnect it. No skill need to put on a Shark bite. You just push the pipe into it.
One nice thing about the Shark bite is that the pipe will turn inside the Shark bite with out damage so should you ever need to remove the copper from the water heater you can do so with ease.

So, cut the hot water pipe, put it back together with the Shark bite coupling, break out the plastic and remove the ball, coat the threads of the nipple with a generous coating of pipe dope. Screw the pipe back onto the nipple. Turn on the water and the water heater then take a nice, long, hot shower.

[lorensandboe]

Well, I worked all day, my brother came over and we worked all night, and no luck. We broke out the plastic inside that nipple and removed the marble, no luck. We installed another Shark Bite on the cold water in so that we could check things on that end, and we checked the cold water in valve as well, the innards were in a little rough shape but looked fine and couldn't have prevented pressure from pushing water in and then up the hot water out.

http://i.imgur.com/u4R9Dgk.jpg

My brother even opened up the hot water out pipe and *blew* up it, and air came out of the taps. But water still would not come out.

I think we may actually be dealing with a clog, though. At one point, we removed the aerators on the taps and eventually this made its way out:

http://i.imgur.com/f9CKn9X.jpg

Some little white bits of what feels like plastic. We didn't think it was calcium; it feels just like a shred of plastic. There was one piece an inch and a half long, and some smaller little bits too. It also floats in water. We have no idea what it's from. I have seen it once before though, much smaller, at the kitchen tap about a year ago. I removed it from the aerator there and that was that.

Our last idea was to try and backflush the pipes then, and hopefully force wash the debris back into the hot water heater and out the drain. We opened the hot water taps all the way, then opened the cold water taps and plugged the taps with our thumbs so that the water would be forced back down the hot water pipes. We did this with as much pressure as we could on multiple taps at once for about ten minutes, and the water did go back into the water heater and out the drain. I then did another full pressure flush to make sure I got everything out of the water heater.

Reconnected everything and tried the hot water taps again, still no luck. Water just will not come out.

So IF there is a plug, it will allow air through easily, and water can be pushed back through it, but it won't allow water out the proper direction. And I have no idea why the simple act of draining the water heater in the first place would have caused such a plug.

So unless someone recognizes what those shreds of plastic are, I'm completely flabbergasted and out of ideas.

[hkstroud]

The white plastic stuff is what remains of your dip tube.

What is a dip tube?

Where the cold water input pipe connects to the water heater, beneath the nipple, is a plastic tube that makes the incoming cold water go to the bottom of the tank.
These can deteriorate into what you found in your aerator.

Apparently yours has deteriorated so badly that it has blocked all of your faucets.

You are going to have to remove the hot stems of all of your faucets and flush them to clear.

[massplumber2008]

I'm not buying it...

A deteriorated dip tube will not block every hot water port at every hot water faucet in the house.

In my opinion, you need to call a plumber at this point. Not to insult you, but you are missing something very simple here and as a result we have you jumping all over the place because we can only go on the information you give us!

Like I said, call a plumber... will solve this in minutes... I promise!

Good luck!

Mark

[lorensandboe]

Yup, I will be doing so today. I'd love for it to be something simple, I just don't hold high hopes for that. I'll be sure to update this thread again when we find the answer. Thanks so much again for all of your efforts, especially you hkstroud!

[hkstroud]

I'm not buying it...

I don't blame you for not buying it Mark, but neither can I believe that a deteriorated dip tube can block a 3/4 line. If you look at the photos you should see that the 3/4" copper changes to PEX at the ceiling and branches of to two 1/2" Pex. Anything else would have to be a blockage between heater and ceiling. She has hot water coming out of the heater.

PS,
Just in case I wrong, I don't have any snowballs.

[hkstroud]

..