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hkstroud · Mar 19, 2013, 01:59 PM

unclear where the water meter is in relation to the water heater?

Me to.
This is what I imagine the lay out looks like.

CeereeOoo
Draw us a picture.

CeereeOoo · Mar 19, 2013, 07:27 PM

Ah, I guess that would help since it's layout is kind of odd.
Here you go.

hkstroud · Mar 19, 2013, 08:15 PM

..

mygirlsdad77 · Mar 20, 2013, 04:39 PM

I would bet the pipe going through the wall is a frost free hose bib, as mark suggested earlier, and the valve to it just shuts off that bib. Of course the valve coming directly out of the meter should shut the water off to the complete house. Now, in the second pic of the pipes going into the concrete, I would guess would be from left to right- 1",3/4",1",1",1",3/4". This narrows it down to two 1",3/4" line (in the bottom pic in post #23) is the water feed from the meter since it is the closest in proximity to the meter, yes? That's how I would have done it If I did such things, lol. However this is just an educated guess. Only way to know for sure is to make a couple cuts. Here is how I would go about this. Cut the left pipe in the vertical halfway between where it comes out of the floor and the 90. Then cut to the right of the 90 halfway between that 90 and the first tee. Of course make sure the water is off first. Then slowly turn the water on and see where the water comes out. If not from the left pipe, then you know it's the next one inch pipe. If it is indeed the first pipe like I think, I would suggest when putting it back togther, installing a 1" pipes that could be the feed. Either of the left two 1 inchers.

Now Im gonna go out on a limb. Im betting the very left 1" sweat union to make it all go back together nice and easy (as long as you know how to solder.) In my opinion, I have just given you your best plan of attack at this point. Other ideas guys?

PS. Cee, there seems to be some confusion about the piping at the meter. Just can't see all the pipes and connections in the pictures presented. Could you please post a few more pics at different angles at the meter so we can wrap our minds around this a bit better? I would bet my life savings that Mark nailed it in post #14.

Disclaimer: I have no actual life savings.

Heck, look real close guys, the writing is even on the wall. Feed loop (main shut off on the oulet of the meter) and sillcocks (even have the little yellow tags to verify, but probably can't read the writing on them anymore?)

CeereeOoo · Mar 20, 2013, 05:10 PM

Originally Posted by hkstroud

..

The first two pipes from the left is the same size piping as the pipe feeding from the meter into the ground.

mygirlsdad77:

That is what I am guessing as well. Can't really get a better shot of the meter piping since it's a relative small little disclosure. I do not know how to solder, was planning on using those Sharkbite connectors to somehow rout the water upward and feed to the softener. My initial plan was to cut right between the first and second pipe, connect one long pipe upward to feed the softener. Then another long pipe back down to connect to the middle pipe. Only thing is that I don't know if there is enough room between the two pipes to make the two connections.

mygirlsdad77 · Mar 20, 2013, 05:17 PM

Ha, I completely forgot you were doing this to install a softener. Okay, sharks will work just fine as long as you use then on 100% straight and round portions of the copper, and make sure the copper surface is extremely clean and free of burrs, etc. Shouldn't have a problem here, just watch the pipe coming out of the ground (its soft copper and comes in rolls, so you need to find the truest round portion for a shark to fit properly. Things look pretty straight up high, so you should be good to go. Just cut as high as possible without getting into solder runs at the 90. Hope this all makes sense.

Oh, and if there isn't room to install two 1" 90's in the horizontal, just cut the first pipe in the vertical and use a shark coupling there, then a shark 90 to make the other connection.

massplumber2008 · Mar 20, 2013, 05:23 PM

Picture helps a lot!

A water softener will NOT fit over by the water pipes and water heater, so you are looking at the wrong area here!

With that being said, you want to connect into the cold water after it goes through the meter, but before it goes into the floor AT THE METER (Harold kind of said it at post #12).

You will shut off the main water supply and hook into the cold water supply (again, before it goes into the floor), install your water softener near the meter, and should be all set! It should be as simple as that!

That make sense?

mygirlsdad77 · Mar 20, 2013, 05:28 PM

For crying out loud in the beard, Mark!! Why make me go through all this thinking when you have the actual correct way to do this? Lol. Jeeze, sometimes I can't see the trees through the forrest. Well Cee. You now have the straight forward way to do this. Pretty simple when you really think about it. Duh me, duh.

Wait a minute, now that I look back at the drawings, I see a lot of empty space between the water meter and the other pipes. Seems to me it would be just as easy to hook in where Cee wants to rather than at the meter. Might even have more room to cut the pipes that aren't at the meter? The feed from the meter looks like it is right up against the wall. Proceed as you desire, Cee, but do know that cutting the copper pipe with anything other than an actuall tubing cutter may leave burrs that would effect the shark fitting. Not really an issue as long as you clean everything up real good and have a straight cut. Now, this is making sense. Lol.

Only problem with my solution is you still only have a 50 50 chance of getting the right pipe for feed. If you do it at the meter, no chance for error.

Okay, just one last question. Is there room in the closet (or whatever the diagonal room is) for the softener, and are you planning on running the drain for the softener to the floor drain?

massplumber2008 · Mar 20, 2013, 05:52 PM

Just have to remember that the water heater will need to be removed down the road, so still looks to me like the best place to put the water softener is over by the water meter, unless that door by the pipes/water heater is a closet and then that could work.

I'm guessing that door is the entrance to the room or did I miss something posted?

Back to you Ceereeooo

hkstroud · Mar 20, 2013, 05:58 PM

The bottom valve at the meter, the one with the broken handle has a waste. The piping appears to come out of the floor to the valve and turn and go through the wall. It does not appear to connected to the pipe out of the meter. Someone did some work here because they scorched the drywall. I think that is the stop valve for the outside faucet.

Yes we really need to know where the softener will be.

massplumber2008 · Mar 20, 2013, 06:04 PM

Because there is an outside faucet (sillcock) coming out of the pipe at the meter before the pipe goes into the ground then that pipe MUST be the outlet from the water meter. This means that there is an INLET shutoff on the other side of the water meter.

If I am right and the water softener will go next to the meter then Ceereeooo should just need to shut off the inlet or outlet shutoffs to the meter and connect BELOW the shutoff for the outside faucet...

CeereeOoo · Mar 20, 2013, 06:06 PM

I was told by the salesman, not too trust worthy hippie looking dude, that as long as I have a 2ft by 2ft area, the softener should fit. There isn't much room elsewhere to put it as we do need the room in front of the washer and dryer to put the clothes into the machines themselves. The room isn't large at all and the picture I provided is certainly not up to scale, haha.

There is certainly no room for me to cut into the line before it goes into the ground, unless I do some real creative piping. I have no prior experience at this, so it's going to be a tough one for me to do anything other than the ordinary. Plus, I would have to cut through the disclosure where the meter is. Also, there is no electric outlet by the meter.

Only if I can find the old contractor I used to employ. I called up this one guy and he couldn't even give me a rough estimate since my home does not have a softener previously. If it had a softener previously, I wouldn't need to hire someone to swap, sigh. I just have such good luck with things.

massplumber2008 · Mar 20, 2013, 06:12 PM

Here was my thoughts... see diagram. Remember, that water heater will need to come out some day...

Otherwise, I'd bet you money that the first pipe that comes out of the ground by the pipe manifold is the main supply... ;)

massplumber2008 · Mar 20, 2013, 06:16 PM

Possible?

massplumber2008 · Mar 20, 2013, 06:24 PM

Another note... see picture below:

hkstroud · Mar 20, 2013, 06:33 PM

I would agree. Probably to tight for Shark Bites though. No mater where the softener sits the pipe can go to the ceiling and come down. So can electric line. Bet the breaker panel is not too far away.

Mark,
Did you get that snow I sent?

massplumber2008 · Mar 20, 2013, 07:03 PM

No... I didn't. What color was it... *smirk*!

CeereeOoo · Mar 20, 2013, 07:04 PM

Okay, this picture is more to scale than my previous one, haha.

I wished the water line was coming from the ceiling rather than underground. The breaker box is actually pretty far away, it is located at the end of the garage near the garage door which sits behind this laundry/utility room.

Massplumber:

Your picture looks too complicated for a noob like myself, haha.

CeereeOoo · Mar 20, 2013, 07:18 PM

Okay, drew up my plan of attack for the piping. Of course everything will fit perfectly in my head but when it's time to do it, nothing fits.

mygirlsdad77 · Mar 20, 2013, 07:57 PM

As far as the piping goes, that is exactly what I described, or envisioned earlier. However, as Mark stated, that is going to play hell with service or replacement of the water heater in the future. Not a great big deal, but certainly makes a somewhat simple job into a real headache when working on or replacing the water heater because now you have to disconnect and move the water softener to get at the water heater. Plumbers nightmare for sure, but it will work. Just expect to spend a lot more in labor if you ever hire a plumber to work on or replace the w/h, or at the very least cussing yourself if you are the lucky chap that gets to do it. Only other option that I can see is to get yourself a stackable washer/drier unit and then you would have plenty of room for the softener next it. Im betting the old lady would love the idea of a new stackable washer drier combo? Running out of ideas here, sorry.

Okay, one last thought. What rooms are around the utility room? Any Closets or voids anywhere near there? If so, you may get creative and place the softener somewhere else. Just have to find a place for the drain, and to make the water piping simple, use pex. Usually a lot more options than you might think. Where there is a will, there is always a way.