[condogirl713]

I live in a condo community and I realize that I a responsible for the plumbing in my bathroom that is not common (meaning shared drainage with my unit and the unit above). However in the past we have had common drainage issues due to tree root in the lines. The association took care of this because it was a "common" problem. Well I just had a plumber pull a root from my toilet drain that was 3 feet long and almost 3 inches wide. The trees are common (since I can't cut them down). Should I have to pay for this uncommon issue when it is a common element causing it?

[smoothy]

If you let us know what state anad country it might be useful as laws vary.

[joypulv]

The association might say that their responsibility ends at the edge of your wall, even if they have to pay for the other part of the same tree root. It's similar to towns who cover sewer lines right where they hit the street, even if it's your clog that got there.
But I would certainly fight for them to pay it. Sometimes every little detail is covered in the terms of the association, and sometimes not. I trust you have scoured the terms.
The tree root shouldn't be there at all if they have had problems in the past and took care of them by replacing old clay pipes with plastic. You may have to arm yourself with a thorough knowledge of what they have fixed in the past to see if they just go with the cheapest fixes, and get the other owners to care about this too.
It's tougher if there is a property management company rather than a real association of owners. Owners care more.

[hkstroud]

3 feet long and almost 3 inches wide

That's almost unbelievable Could you be overstating that. Did you save the root? How did he hook (and cut) a root that size. Can you show us a picture.
Did you see him pull the root out?

Sorry but this is so far out, I have to ask these kinds of questions.

So, no this is not common.

Unless you have trees growing in your house its an association problem.

Please show us a picture.

[condogirl713]

Sorry, I am in Houston, TX. And I did see him remove the root and I do have it. I did overstate though, it was only 2 feet instead of 3 but it is 2 1/2 inches wide at the base. I have contacted the management company and am prepared to fight this. Photo is attached.

[joypulv]

Do you have a condo association as well as a management company?
Have you contacted both?
How many units in complex?
Was there work done to drainage outside your unit recently?
That almost looks like a piece that could have gone into an open pipe when being worked on.

(Not that it matters too much, but if that's 2.5" wide at the base it's not 2' long.)

[speedball1]

Even though the root ended up in your toilet it would not have been there at all if the sewer line didn't have a opening out in the "common area". It should be the Condo Assoc, to pay your expense plus locating and repairing the break in the line. That's my take on it, Good luck, Tom

[condogirl713]

Um yes it is 2 feet long. When I get home I will attach a picture with measuring tape as well. (not that it matter too much).

Yes there is an association and management company.
Yes I have contacted both.
300 units (combination of condos and townhomes).
Last drainage work done June 2012

[speedball1]

Condogirl, Did you read my post? Tom

[condogirl713]

Condogirl, Did you read my post? Tom

Yes, Tom! Thanks! I am awaiting their response. I have to put everything in writing to them because they seem to "forget" verbal conversations.

Thanks again!

D

[hkstroud]

Congratulations to your plumber. I wouldn't have thought it could have been done. Don't see how you got any drainage.
It is certainly just a guess but it would be my guess that this was left in the pipe by the persons doing the previous sewer work. I don't see how your plumber could have cut or pulled it loose with a snake. Had to be left by previous plumber. In other words the previous plumber must have cut and replaced some of the pipe, leaving that piece of root back up in the pipe some where.

[speedball1]

I wondered the same thing Harold. Something's not adding up here. If the root grew there then should be growth all the way back to a break in the line. Plus the root was too large to be the end of a root system. Another thing! How could that toilet ever flushed with a root that size in the line. Something smells here and it ain't the toilet. Nice catch Harold! Tom

[mygirlsdad77]

I have personally pulled back roots of this size right at the bottom on a closet bend. Roots can travel under a homes foundation and get in at any faulty cast iron joint. They really tend to like the leaky toilet joints for some reason in my experience. I have actually pulled root clusters of this size and bigger by hand, simply by putting my hand down the toilet drain and pulling. These are not full grown roots, pretty soft, but strong enough to hold together when you pull them out by hand or with an auger bit. Wish I had some pics of the stuff I come across from time to time.

[speedball1]

But Lee, The point Harold and I are making is that there was non growth leading up to the root. If roots had reaches the closet bend they should have been small root tendrils and not some big hoking root. Do you agree? Back to you, Tom

[mygirlsdad77]

Can't say for sure, I know what I have pulled out of the closet bends in some of the older homes around here were of that size. But I see your point, Tom. Hey, and great to have you back man.

The pic that was posted appears to have a decent size root or two in it, but most of that glob is just tendrils. I bet you could pick that thing up and tear it mostly apart by hand.

As for where the root is getting into the sewer, only a backhoe, or a sewer camera could tell you that for sure. I would opt for a sewer camera inspection. Make sure to get a copy of it, as it may come in handy when fighting the association on this.

[hkstroud]

Probably shouldn't get too far into this aspect of this problem but condogiirl really should review the master deed of the condominium. The boundaries of most condominium units are the inter surfaces of the walls, floor and ceilings. Once any pipes, wires or other utilities pass that point they are the property and responsibility of the association. Even if she blocked her own toilet it became an association problem once it passed upper surface of the floor, unless the master deed provides otherwise.

Note I saying that the master deed rules here, not association by-laws.

Been there, done that.

[speedball1]

I don't care what anybody says. That log is just too damm big not to have caused major backups as it was growing up in then toilet drain line, Something's not adding up here. Your thoughts? B Tom

[hkstroud]

Well condogirl hasn't been back lately but I would say that toilet hasn't been used since the original work was done. Even tissues wouldn't pass that root ball.

[mfrench]

This has happened to me as a plumber a number of times. If you are on the lower floor of the building then the main sewer which is likely a common line, would be located within about five feet or less of your toilet or closet flange. A common occurrence for me would be that I would run my drain cleaning cable into the sewer from the toilet/closet flange and clear the problem within a few feet of the toilet (technically your side of the sewer). For good measure I would run my equipment out a bit further in to the main sewer (maybe another 15 to 20 feet) your plumber may have done this as well since it is common practice. Roots (and many other things) that are located in the sewer will get caught up on the drain cleaning cables and be brought back into the home when we reel the cable back in.

My only point to all this is that in my experience is not uncommon at all to bring roots back from a main sewer accessed through a toilet/closet flange. I have even pulled toilets and found roots growing up into the toilet. The real question is at what distance were they (roots) encountered, and were they the actual cause of your back up on this occasion. Building management will commonly use this line of thinking to justify not paying your bill for you. Example: "Your toilet backed up within a few feet of your toilet with TP or ? your plumber ran his cable past that into our main with known roots and pulled some back. The two things are unrelated"

If it starts getting messy have your plumber run his sewer camera from the problem spot and get some good proof.

Good luck on this I hope it all works out good for you.

[Handyman2007]

It really doesn't matter if it were 10 feet long. That does not belong in ANY pipe!