[dwashbur]

both in english and in the original greek there is a difference between demonization (possession) and oppression.

Ummmm, no, there isn't. What words are you thinking of?

[hauntinghelper]

Ummmm, no, there isn't. What words are you thinking of?

Specifically I was referencing "katadunasteuo" as found in Acts 10:38
Versus "daimonizomai" as found in the majority of demonization accounts.

I'm aware that most of what is translated as "oppressed" is done so differently... however, the Acts account does show how it is slightly different than demon possession.

I still very much follow the belief that demonic oppression can be just as severe as possession... but still they care different definitions. I might also point out that I believe for a Christian to be in either situation, it is something they have allowed to happen, though much of the time unknowingly.

[Wondergirl]

it is something they have allowed to happen, though much of the time unknowingly.

Huh? And how does that work?

[hauntinghelper]

Huh? And how does that work?

I would say mostly through ignorance... or even by having it be such a gradual degregation that in the end they don't know how they got in that situation. Even as Christians, if we don't take authority over our minds, our actions and our attitudes the enemy can still slip in.

[dwashbur]

Specifically I was referencing "katadunasteuo" as found in Acts 10:38
versus "daimonizomai" as found in the majority of demonization accounts.

OK, I see where you're at. I'm not sure that one word is enough to make the "possession/oppression" distinction, since "katadunasteuo" simply means "be under the power (of)," and there's no indication in the context that it referred to believers; the way I read it, it's just a catch-all for Jesus' entire ministry vis-à-vis demons. Thanks for the clarification. Nice catch!

[hauntinghelper]

OK, I see where you're at. I'm not sure that one word is enough to make the "possession/oppression" distinction, since "katadunasteuo" simply means "be under the power (of)," and there's no indication in the context that it referred to believers; the way I read it, it's just a catch-all for Jesus' entire ministry vis-a-vis demons. Thanks for the clarification. Nice catch!

Thanks Dave. I agree, there is never a distinction made between the believers and the non believers... and for me that is just fine. I understand that many people find it difficult to believe that believers can not be demonized. Since it's not technically "ownership" (as possession indicates), I am open to the demonziaton of believers as a possibility... infact, more so than not.

[Wondergirl]

What would a demonized Christian act like, and what characteristics would there be? How would I recognize this?

[hauntinghelper]

What would a demonized Christian act like, and what characteristics would there be? How would I recognize this?

From what I've been able to study, when a Christian is demonized (if it's possible) there seems to be more of an inability to connect with God and His word... as opposed to the extreme characteristics seen in unbelievers. I think this also makes a good argument that perhaps they are just severely oppressed. Things like praying, reading scripture become very difficult.
Manifestations such as severe schizophrenia, insanity and the like don't seem to be as much of an issue when the individual is a believer. Again, I'm on the fence about this issue and I'm not saying it's an easy one to answer.

[Wondergirl]

Manifestations such as severe schizophrenia, insanity and the like don't seem to be as much of an issue when the individual is a believer.

So you are saying believers cannot be mentally ill, and if a person is mentally ill, he has been possessed by a demon and is no longer (or never was) a believer?

[dwashbur]

As the parent of a mentally ill child, I'm quite interested in the answer to that, as well.

[hauntinghelper]

So you are saying believers cannot be mentally ill, and if a person is mentally ill, he has been possessed by a demon and is no longer (or never was) a believer?

Actually I think you are just trying to argue with me. However, NO, I do not think believers cannot be mentally ill. Just like I do not believe most physcial ailments are cause by demonic power.

Demons can cause sickness... and they can be the source of mental illness... but that doesn't mean every case is one of demonic manifestation. People that suffer from any sort of ailment or abnormality need to be treated with compassion no matter what the cause.

I do not believe that there is a demon under every rock or in every illness. However, that does not null their reality and existence. When I made the reference you are now asking about, it was in the context of a person actually being possessed... it wasn't a blanket statement.

[Wondergirl]

Actually I think you are just trying to argue with me.

No, and thank you for elaborating. Dwashbur also had trouble understanding what you meant.

[freeman4]

The Bible tells me that there is only one faith, one God and one Church or that is one body of people in Gods church or system.

Eph 4:4 There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called to one hope when you were called;

Eph 4:5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism;

Eph 4:6 one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.

With over 5000 different denominations in this Nation and World, something is wrong. Everyone can not be right although they believe they may be, so who or what is right and can we know?

Our Nation is now on verge of a total collapse and why? I know some do not believe this but look around you, look at the World situation. Sick, sick, sick, and people say that Gods Kingdom is here now. Something is wrong somewhere.

God is totally upset because we are wallowing in pagan filth and squalor. Your thoughts about this.

[Wondergirl]

who or what is right and can we know?

No, we can't know. God looks at our hearts and our actions.

Our Nation is now on verge of a total collapse

No, it isn't. There is a lot of good going on. Open your eyes.

God is totally upset because we are wallowing in pagan filth and squalor. Your thoughts about this.

God has been upset for centuries. That's why he sent His Son. Now it's our responsibility to thank Him by reaching out to others and showing God's love to them. There are tons of opportunities every day. Look for them in your life. Then reach out.

[dwashbur]

Our Nation is now on verge of a total collapse

I don't know who told you that, but they're full of something that ain't the Holy Spirit.

God is totally upset because we are wallowing in pagan filth and squalor.

Do you have any evidence for this? Or are you projecting your own upset onto God?

[freeman4]

There are those who are being used in our time to get the warning message out and as God said, it will fall on ears that can not hear and eyes which can not see.

People do not read their Bible and when they do they want it to say what they want to hear. Yes, God is angry because of the pagan traditions that are being observed. Not one day such as Christmas, Easter, Halloween and many more have been sanctioned by God, not one. Show me in scripture about Christmas, show me about Easter, I know the Passover.

In just a few short months people will be brought to their knees asking God to forgive them. If one can not see these events coming then they are definitely of another spirit.

[hauntinghelper]

In a few short months? Let me guess... Harold Camping is at it again... or are you following another misguided preacher gone false prophet?

I am a born again, Spirit filled believer. I celebrate Christmas because it's when we recognize the birth of our Savior... I celebrate Easter because it's when we recognize the resurrection of our Savior... and I celebrate Halloween because my children like to dress up as princesses and get candy! Yes, they all have pagan origins... but when we are celebrating these events as Christians, we are not recognizing that origins.

My advice to you freeman, would be to get a life, learn to love others... and get off other Christians backs. If you want to be an example to the world... do it with love, compassion and mercy and save the finger pointing for Westboro Baptist.

[freeman4]

In a few short months? Lemme guess...Harold Camping is at it again...or are you following another misguided preacher gone false prophet?

I am a born again, Spirit filled believer. I celebrate Christmas because it's when we recognize the birth of our Savior...I celebrate Easter because it's when we recognize the resurrection of our Savior...and I celebrate Halloween because my children like to dress up as princesses and get candy! Yes, they all have pagan origins...but when we are celebrating these events as Christians, we are not recognizing that origins.

My advice to you freeman, would be to get a life, learn to love others....and get off other Christians backs. If you want to be an example to the world...do it with love, compassion and mercy and save the finger pointing for Westboro Baptist.

Show me where Jesus commanded this in scripture. All of those are Pagan holidays and if one would have the insight to check the history or it they would find out. The problem is if one found out the truth it would mean a tremendous hardship on them and their families because their life would be completely turned up side down.

Those are counterfeit days inspired by the spirit of Satan.

[Wondergirl]

Show me where Jesus commanded this in scripture.

He doesn't have to command it for Christians to celebrate those events in His life. Do you celebrate your birthday?

[hauntinghelper]

1 Corinthians 10:31
"So whether you eat or drink or whatever you do, do it all for the glory of God."

It says whatever I do. The Word doesn't command much of us... just whatever we do, do it for God's glory. I already told you, we are very aware that those holidays have pagan origins. I have many tattoos... most of which are religious in nature. I have the Chi-Rho on one forearm and Christ coming with the clouds of Heaven on the other. FOR HIS GLORY, not mine. Remember this brother, we battle not against flesh and blood... it seems to me you are picking the wrong things to bicker about. Christianity is not a religion... it is a relationship, and it is faith in Christ. If your faith is weak to the point of not celebrating Easter of Christmas, then so be it... but don't challenge anyone else's relationship with Christ because they do so (for His name might I add).