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Wondergirl · Mar 2, 2013, 07:32 PM

Originally Posted by classyT

Really? the person is new here. He/she doesn't understand that being a fundalmentalist is prohibited and ridiculed here. At least wait a few more post to pounce...just sayin.

I used to be one. I finally got past the milk and into the meat of the Word.

Wondergirl · Mar 2, 2013, 07:34 PM

Originally Posted by Curtis Wilson

When someone receives a revelation from God the father of who Jesus is, and then they confess Jesus Christ as Lord, they become born again.

Apparently you don't believe in infant baptism.

dwashbur · Mar 2, 2013, 07:38 PM

Originally Posted by ;

Really? the person is new here. He/she doesn't understand that being a fundalmentalist is prohibited and ridiculed here. At least wait a few more post to pounce...just sayin.

Um, no. For one thing, the new person should by now have perused the board enough to know what's going on. For another, I never said anything was "prohibited and ridiculed," and I did neither. I meant every word. And lastly, there are those of us who have poured our life's blood into studying the language, setting, context and everything else about the Bible for multiple decades, wrestling with those questions I mentioned and doing our best to maintain intellectual honesty. The suggestion that it's all nothing more than a matter of steps A, B and C to do whatever, and you either believe or you don't, is a slap in the face to our life's work. And I meant every word of my prayer for him/her. Because it WILL happen, and unless s/he really starts to understand the incredible grayness that permeates our Bible, s/he WILL stumble, and possibly fall. I prefer not to see that happen to anyone. Hence my heartfelt warning. I'm not getting my nose out of joint over the slap in my face; I'm big and ugly enough to deal with that. But I've seen first-hand what happens when that nice little house of cards gets blown over. It ain't a pretty sight, and I'd rather not see anybody else have to go through it.

Curtis Wilson · Mar 2, 2013, 07:45 PM

Originally Posted by Wondergirl

Apparently, you don't believe in infant baptism.

How can a baby understand who Jesus is? I do believe in dedicating infants to the Lord. There comes a time in everyone's life where they become cognitive to the things of God, at what age that is probably different to every individual. No one can confess Jesus is Lord except by the Holy Spirit.

1Co 12:3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.

classyT · Mar 2, 2013, 07:48 PM

Originally Posted by dwashbur

Um, no. For one thing, the new person should by now have perused the board enough to know what's going on. For another, I never said anything was "prohibited and ridiculed," and I did neither. I meant every word. And lastly, there are those of us who have poured our life's blood into studying the language, setting, context and everything else about the Bible for multiple decades, wrestling with those questions I mentioned and doing our best to maintain intellectual honesty. The suggestion that it's all nothing more than a matter of steps A, B and C to do whatever, and you either believe or you don't, is a slap in the face to our life's work. And I meant every word of my prayer for him/her. Because it WILL happen, and unless s/he really starts to understand the incredible grayness that permeates our Bible, s/he WILL stumble, and possibly fall. I prefer not to see that happen to anyone. Hence my heartfelt warning. I'm not getting my nose out of joint over the slap in my face; I'm big and ugly enough to deal with that. But I've seen first-hand what happens when that nice little house of cards gets blown over. It ain't a pretty sight, and I'd rather not see anybody else have to go through it.

Please Dave, in WHAT world is this comment not ridicule?:

"Wow. What's the view like from that simplistic world of yours?"

I don't believe the bible is gray. Many people don't. Deal with it.

Mcsap9213 · Mar 2, 2013, 07:49 PM

I am peacefully and respectfully telling you of how God sent Jesus to die for YOU. God didn't have to do any such thing. He created us to be free moral agents , not robots.

As a Christian , it is my duty to tell of what God has done for all of mankind through Jesus. It is not my desire or intent to force you to do anything you don't want to do. Becoming a Christian has to be something you WANT to do.

No love of any kind can be forced on another person or it isn't true love. There are no threats , no arguments , no name calling , no ridiculing , no air of superiority. Just my words about a loving creator God who wants you to accept his son so that you can spend eternity with him.

God will accept ANYONE no matter what they have done if they truly repent. God doesn't care what you have done or what kind of life you have lived. He offers his free gift of salvation to anyone who will simply accept it.

My desire is to witness to any and all that will listen and trust that some will consider what God has to offer to them.

Wondergirl · Mar 2, 2013, 07:53 PM

Originally Posted by Curtis Wilson

How can a baby understand who Jesus is? I do believe in dedicating infants to the Lord. There comes a time in everyones life where they become cognitive to the things of God, at what age that is probably different to every individual. No one can confess Jesus is Lord except by the Holy Spirit.

So the Holy Spirit is incapable of working faith in a baby's heart?

hauntinghelper · Mar 2, 2013, 07:59 PM

Maybe it's just me... but I think the last few pages of posts have gotten away from the subject of eternal judgement and more so on attacking eachother's beliefs and interpretations of scripture.

There is much that's been said I agree with and disagree with, but it's not necessarily furthering the specific subject at hand anymore.

Wondergirl · Mar 2, 2013, 08:02 PM

Originally Posted by dwashbur

Because it WILL happen, and unless s/he really starts to understand the incredible grayness that permeates our Bible, s/he WILL stumble, and possibly fall. I prefer not to see that happen to anyone. Hence my heartfelt warning. I'm not getting my nose out of joint over the slap in my face; I'm big and ugly enough to deal with that. But I've seen first-hand what happens when that nice little house of cards gets blown over. It ain't a pretty sight, and I'd rather not see anybody else have to go through it.

Ben there, done that. Grew up in a fundamentalist/evangelical/ultra conservative home where all things Bible were either black or white. I stumbled when I left home for college, and fall I did. My house of cards went tumbling. Years later, I am finally at peace with what I believe.

Wondergirl · Mar 2, 2013, 08:04 PM

>Moved to Religious Discussions<

Carry on!

Curtis Wilson · Mar 2, 2013, 08:05 PM

Originally Posted by Wondergirl

So the Holy Spirit is incapable of working faith in a baby's heart?

The Holy Spirit does work in an infants heart, but for them to understand it, no.
Understanding is the key to faith,

Mat 13:19 People hear the message about the kingdom but do not understand it. Then the evil one comes. He steals what was planted in their hearts. Those people are like the seed planted on a path.

You can not have faith without understanding, which = "Wisdom"

Athos · Mar 2, 2013, 08:08 PM

Originally Posted by Mcsap9213

I am peacefully and respectfully telling you .......

As a Christian ,....... It is not my desire or intent to force you to do anything you don't want to do.

There are no threats , no arguments , no name calling , no ridiculing , no air of superiority..

Mcsap, do you ever read what you write? It is not your intent to force anyone, etc. There are no threats,. etc.

Yet, from the other side of your mouth, we are condemned to hell if we don't buy into what you are selling.

You are living in bizarro world. And you're completely oblivious to your own self-delusion.

Take a step back, read a book, say a prayer (ask God for guidance), and take two aspirin.

classyT · Mar 2, 2013, 08:18 PM

WG.

Because you reasoned it out in your mind. You can't back your thoughts up with scripture. Am I right? I am not trying to be rude but.. come ON. I believe that the Lord Jesus is so full of grace he will do /go above and beyond to get someone to accept him. However I can't back that up. I can say he isn't willing that anyone should perish. I can KNOW him personally. But that isn't the gospel. Our personal thoughts is NOT what we represent to the world. We have ONLY the Word of God. The word of God says that Jesus is the ONLY way.. not A way.

Wondergirl · Mar 2, 2013, 08:25 PM

Originally Posted by Curtis Wilson

The Holy Spirit does work in an infants heart

And that's why I believe in infant baptism.

The understanding develops as the child develops. That's why there are sponsors or godparents, to help the parents as they raise the child and teach him.

Wondergirl · Mar 2, 2013, 08:28 PM

Originally Posted by classyT

WG.

because you reasoned it out in your mind

Huh? I never said that.

hauntinghelper · Mar 2, 2013, 08:32 PM

Originally Posted by Wondergirl

And that's why I believe in infant baptism.

The understanding develops as the child develops. That's why there are sponsors or godparents, to help the parents as they raise the child and teach him.

But that's not what baptism is about. Until a person receives Christ's atonement, there is no purpose for baptism. It's a symbolic death and resurrection with Christ... and not something an infant, or even a young child has the ability to understand. Though Christianity isn't so much about reason, it is about a choice... and children aren't held to that choice until they are at an age of accountability... which obviously will differ from child to child as they mentally develop.

classyT · Mar 2, 2013, 08:33 PM

WG.

No you didn't. But you can't back your beliefs up with scripture either.

If Jesus says he is the ONLY way to the father.. how can a hindu come to him?

Mcsap9213 · Mar 2, 2013, 08:37 PM

Originally Posted by Wondergirl

So the Holy Spirit is incapable of working faith in a baby's heart?

It isn't that the Holy Spirit is incapable. Rather it is the free will that God gives man. To believe that infant baptism converts the baby into being a Christian would mean that God forces himself upon the child.

In order to become a Christian , the person has to freely and voluntarily accept Jesus as his Saviour. Baptism is also a command to Christians but like accepting Jesus , it is voluntary. It is not a requirement to be saved. The thief on the cross accepted Jesus but of course , wasn't baptized.

I do absolutely agree with infant dedication though. Christian parents are certainly encouraged to publicly dedicate their children to God. That doesn't mean the child will become a Christian or even live a good life. That small child will someday make his / her own decision whether to accept the free gift of salvation.

Athos · Mar 2, 2013, 08:50 PM

Originally Posted by hauntinghelper

Maybe it's just me...but I think the last few pages of posts have gotten away from the subject of eternal judgement and moreso on attacking eachother's beliefs and interpretations of scripture.

There is much that's been said I agree with and disagree with, but it's not necessarily furthering the specific subject at hand anymore.

Good point, haunting helper. I'm at fault. I do tend to get carried away with the fundamentalists. I know they hold their beliefs strongly, but I'll never understand how they're so insistent on hellfire for those who believe differently. Other than that, I respect and admire their strong faith in a world that drifts further and further away from basic decency.

Anyway, my apologies

.

Mcsap9213 · Mar 2, 2013, 08:51 PM

Originally Posted by Athos

Mcsap, do you ever read what you write? It is not your intent to force anyone, etc. There are no threats, .... etc.

Yet, from the other side of your mouth, we are condemned to hell if we don't buy into what you are selling.

You are living in bizarro world. And you're completely oblivious to your own self-delusion.

Take a step back, read a book, say a prayer (ask God for guidance), and take two aspirin.

Sorry Athos , it isn't what I say , it is what God says.

God created man.

God gave man free will.

God offers a free gift of salvation through Jesus.

Man can accept or reject this.

God wants man to accept his gift of eternal life but does not force himself upon us.

God says that we are not righteous. Our righteousness is as filthy rags. We simply are not good enough.

God sent Jesus to die IN OUR PLACE because the wages of sin is (eternal ) death.

God loves us. He WANTS you to accept this gift.

But he is just and requires a payment for our sins. That payment is satisfied through accepting Jesus.

If you choose to reject this gift , you CANNOT spend eternity with God.

You then will spend eternity WITHOUT GOD.

Matthew 25:41. Depart from me ye accursed Into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels. This isn't a threat , but rather it is a warning.

A warning from the word of God , not from me. I am just repeating it.