[trashcanman]

Hello guys

I just need some opinions as to whether or not I should be at fault

OK... I was about to learn left on a 4-way intersection... I positioned my car approximately halfway through the middle of the intersection so that I could get myself ready once the oncoming traffic was cleared... I saw that the light turned orange and saw that most of the cars were already slowing down to stop(actually the car on the left lane and the middle lane were slowing down), so I thought that the road was cleared for me to make my turn... I passed left lane the middle lane, then all of a sudden, the car from the right lane came through in front of me and I hit her...

... I didn't see her at all... I thought that since most of the cars were already coming to a complete stop that I did have the right of way...

And so yeah... I t-boned her... her car swerved and she had a major damage on her driver's side and the lower-left passenger side of the car (they have to pry her door open to get her out) while I got a scratch... which, to me, actually make sense because she was going real fast, while I, was going 10 to 15 mph...

... I was also relieved that there was a kind gentleman who offered to be a witness, and told me that the girl I hit ran a red light... he left me his information, and then took off...

... the only problem is, I just don't get as to why I got a ticket? I mean, I told the officer my side, and I also give him the paper that the witness told me... but he said that he won't accept that since the witness didn't stay... which, I thought, was bull..

... anywho, if I plead not guilty, is it possible to have that ticket to sort of disappear? And also, if I was proven not guilty, what's going to happen?. I mean like insurance-wise, points on my driving record-wise, and such... because, I'm confused...

Please help me! :(

[shannonoleyar]

In Ohio, if you proceed past the white stopping line and the light turns red and you go... you are at fault for the accident. Now, if the other driver ran a red light she should get cited too. I'm not an attorney, but you should tell the Judge and/or Prosecutor your side of the story and bring the witness statement... the Judge may at least consider it. Allstate Insurance gives you one "freebie" accident before the jack your rates up... consider switching insurance companies.

*By the way, this exact situation just happened to my co-worker... is that you Mike?

[Fr_Chuck]

Yep as a police officer in GA for many years this is how it works. Although many if not most break the law a lot.

If you are coming up to a intersection to turn left, you are not to cross the white line unless you are able to complete your turn. So you are wrong there for one. For two, you can not make a left turn unless the road is clear, you did not see the car but that does not matter, you can't turn unless it is clear.

So yes you are completely at fault for hitting the other car.

** from the way I understand your statement

[trashcanman]

the thing was, I was behind the line, but when I saw a clear spot on the back of the oncoming traffic... as in real clear! So I positioned my car so that once my target reached me, I could go through smoothly... but the thing was, when I positione myself, the light had already turned yellow, I looked at the oncoming traffic to see if there's any car that are going to beat that yellow light... but I saw none... the only thing I saw was that the left lane car and the middle lane car was coming to a complete stop (in fact, if I do recall correctly, they were almost at a complete stop before I make my turn)

... again, I didn't see her car... even if I did, her car was so far away that she wouldn't have the time to try to beat the yellow light... and besides, it really doesn't make any sense. I mean if 2 cars who were 30-40 feet away from the white line had come to a complete stop, then why can't a car who was more than 30-40 feet away? I mean, if a car making a right turn has to slow down at least 100 feet away before he reaches his target, then I could only fathom as to what is the suggested distance of whether or not I should stop or not once I see the light turn yellow... and also, if I do recall correctly, there's a law in virginia that says that you should at least let go of your gas pedal when you're about to approach an intersection... or maybe that's just what my driver's ed teacher told me =]

so I proceeded on through the left lane, the middle lane, and out of no where, a car from the right lane sped pass through and I t-boned her...

at this point, after recollecting what had happened and trying to make sense of what had happened, I really do believed that she did ran a red light because from what I understand, usually a yellow light last for about a couple off second before it turns red... it took me at least 2 seconds after the light turned yellow to look to see if I was cleared to go before I did proceed to go... and in fact, my witness saw that the lady did ran a red light..

also, I need your advice as to what to do as well... people are telling me get a written statement from my witness while it's still fresh in his mind... I don't know, I'm just so confused by the whole thing... please help! =[

[Fr_Chuck]

Proving she ran the red light ( which also means you most likely did to.

But yes, you needed to get a statement of all of the witnessesw at the scene ( actually the officer should have gotten at least a couple in his police report.

[trashcanman]

The thing was, the police sort of "disregarded" the fact that I told him that I had a witness who saw what had happened... he told me that since the witness left, he has to base it on my words against their words... so yeah

I don't know if the police got any more witnesses other than what I told him...

[trashcanman]

and also, I just called the witness to ask him a written account of what had happened, but he told me that his son told him that I must have him "supained" first via the county lawyer... now I don't know what that is and what that means, but it ain't letting me get his written statement... =[

[excon]

Hello trash:

His written statement won't do you any good either. You need to have him show up in court. You don't need to subpoena him, unless he won't come on his own. It's now the judge you have to convice, not the cop.

excon

[trashcanman]

But he keeps insisting that I make sure that I "subpoena" him... do you think that I should just do it?

[trashcanman]

I really do appreciate all of your suggestio, you guys... you just have no idea how this forum is helping me get a basic grasp of what's going on and what needs to be done =]

again... thank you guys so much! =]

[trashcanman]

I was searching through another forum and found this...

"In answer to your "who's at fault" question, he would be. If you allow the
first 3 vehicles to go through the yellow before you start your turn and
then get hit by the 4th vehicle, you are proceeding according to the law
(you are required to get out of the intersection before the light turns
green for the other directions), but he isn't (since the light would have
turned red by the time he got to the intersection) and thus he is 100% at
fault, just as he would be if he hit one of the cars proceeding across his
path on the green light. This, however, would be small comfort considering
the damage that would be done to your car and the possible injuries that
could be suffered by you or your passengers...taking on a 1 or 2 ton
vehicle moving at 50 Kph or more is somewhat risky <grin>! "

[excon]

Hello again, trashdude:

It just ain't so. You can't turn into a car. You just can't. Even if the car went through a red light and was speeding. You can't turn if there a car there are there was. It doesn't matter whether you saw them or not.

excon

[trashcanman]

so just in case they do find me guilty... what's going to happen now? =/

and also could the result of hearing affect how the insurance look at things... acutally would it change how thye settled things with the other party

coz' right now, apparently, with our insurance putting the fault on me, my dad wants me to just forget about it and plead guilty...

my question is, would the charges be heavier if I plead guilty and they find me guilty?. I just don't know; I'm sort of in despair right now... I really wanted to fight it off, but my dad told me that it's going to cost us more if the other party ended up hiring a lawyer... I really don't know how the discussion went between our insurance and the other insurance... I mean, I'm also worried about my record scroe and how it's going to affect my driving record.

also, I wanted to ask if the insurace will shoulder the whole thing... and the only thing that we have to worr about is the price of our insurance being jacked up...

[moix4]

Your first question was why you got a ticket. You entered the intersection on a yellow light. More than likely, by the time you started your turn the light turned red. If you cannot make it through the intersection on the yellow light, you are breaking the [traffic] law.

As far as who is at fault in the accident, I would have to say that since you entered into the intersection when it was not clear to turn & then you t-boned her you would be at fault, However, if the witness says that she ran a red light, then she is partially at fault as well.

Finally, you cannot subpoena the witness to traffic court, the court would never grant such a thing. If you report this to your insurance company, they will send the witness a statement form to complete etc. This would be for the decision regarding liability NOT for your appearance in traffic court. You CAN however, go to the police dept & file an "amended report" listing the witness' information. I think the witness' son is paranoid for his father.

Allstate does not give any "freebies". You have to pay an additional premium for the "forgiveness coverage.

[JudyKayTee]

Your first question was why you got a ticket. You entered the intersection on a yellow light. More than likely, by the time you started your turn the light turned red. If you cannot make it thru the intersection on the yellow light, you are breaking the [traffic] law.

As far as who is at fault in the accident, I would have to say that since you entered into the intersection when it was not clear to turn & then you t-boned her you would be at fault, However, if the witness says that she ran a red light, then she is partially at fault as well.

Finally, you cannot subpoena the witness to traffic court, the court would never grant such a thing. If you report this to your insurance company, they will send the witness a statement form to complete etc. This would be for the decision regarding liability NOT for your appearance in traffic court. You CAN however, go to the police dept & file an "amended report" listing the witness' information. I think the witness' son is paranoid for his father.

Allstate does not give any "freebies". You have to pay an additional premium for the "forgiveness coverage.

This is why investigators and adjusters never see eye to eye -

I don't think you can make a case based on "more than likely" the light had turned red - should be more about proof; also, if the OP was in the intersection on yellow he "owned" the intersection and had the right to complete his move - if you are in the intersection and it's yellow you are not allowed to stand there, blocking traffic, and wait for a green. Did he show bad judgment - possibly. I can't determine how long he stood there, whether he entered on yellow. Obviously he was wrong because he didn't have a clear sight line.

Of course, the Police are after the fact witnesses, their job is enforcing laws and not investigating accidents - I've seen people ticketed simply because the other party was more severely injured and didn't get the opportunity to explain the accident.

But I do agree about Allstate!

[JudyKayTee]

Whoops! I just responded to a March 2007 question. Sorry.

[moix4]

I saw March & didn't notice the year. I will try to be more careful