[tomder55]

Governments are one of many influential players in the game. No one is at the helm, it guides itself.

Maybe ;but in the end of the day ,it's government that is the ultimate power and responsibility . Laws whether written by a legislator ;a K Street lobby firm or by a totalitarian despot still need to become law ;and that is a government process . There is where the buck of responsibility ends .

[Tuttyd]

Maybe ;but in the end of the day ,it's government that is the ultimate power and responsibility . Laws whether written by a legislator ;a K Street lobby firm or by a totalitarian despot still need to become law ;and that is a government process . There is where the buck of responsibility ends .

Interesting, but I would say that responsibility rests with ,'us' the ordinary citizen. The average man or women in the street cannot influence Exxon, the Academy of Sciences or any quasi-governmental monstrosity.

Government is the only lever that the average person has if they want to change things. Why on earth would anyone want to make government smaller? At the moment the 'body politic' is corporatism and corporatism is the 'body politic'.

Obviously, no one wants an expansion of the type of government we are getting. Forget about the rest. The average voter is never going to be in a position to influence anything other than government. Why would we want to squander this?

[paraclete]

Government is the only lever that the average person has if they want to change things. Why on earth would anyone want to make government smaller? At the moment the 'body politic' is corporatism and corporatism is the 'body politic'.

You want to see where corporatism gets you, you think you just dropped off a cliff

Nine executives lose millions as share plan falters

[tomder55]

Why would we want to squander this?

And why would one want the"benevolent " Prince to be a multi-headed hydra ;bureaucratic mazed Leviathan ? You just described how the growth of the state has morphed into this unresponsive entity that you say is beholden to the corporate entity and not the individual . Your solution is to grow it bigger ? When a corporation gets that big there is demands to break it up .

[Tuttyd]

and why would one want the"benevolent " Prince to be a multi-headed hydra ;bureaucratic mazed Leviathan ? You just described how the growth of the state has morphed into this unresponsive entity that you say is beholden to the corporate entity and not the individual . Your solution is to grow it bigger ? When a corporation gets that big there is demands to break it up .

If the government were to shrink to minimum proportions overnight, it would make absolute no difference the void will be filled.

I am not actually talking about A CORPORATION When I talk about, "the void being filled" I don't necessarily mean that a single corporation takes on the role of government anymore than I mean that a single corporation has the ability to control government. The body politic is massive, so why would it's left hand want to fight against the right hand? Of course government is an important part of the body, but it is a compliant part.

P.S I dislike these type of analogies, but anyway.

[Tuttyd]

When a corporation gets that big there is demands to break it up .

I think I see where you are coming from. As I said I don't like these sort of analogies, but I'll try another one.

I don't think there could ever be a single corporation that could ever get that big. I am actually talking about a 'bundle' of corporations( including government) working towards a common goal. A goal they are unconscious of.

I use 'bundle' because I think we can imagine them as the fasces. There is no left right distinction rather there is a higher unity through strength.

Instead of this old fashion fascist rhetoric, replace it with the modern version. For example, strength through ideology, rationalism, managing, technology. I could go on and on with similar familiar tunes they all dance to.

Common ideology creates the Leviathan.

[joypulv]

President Obama announces intent to appoint Esther Duflo to Global Development Council - MIT News Office

Good? I hope so. Councils, commissions, agencies always make me sigh, OMG top heavy. Then I sigh again and say this is the way of the world when you have 7 billion people. Then I sigh again, hoping that poverty alleviation and economic development (despite being in the interest of the US) are something positive in the corporatist 'developed' world.

[tomder55]

More surrender of sovereignty to the Agenda 21 globalists.

[joypulv]

Yeah right, it's a liberal conspiracy, along with global warming.

[tomder55]

I wouldn't say liberal .There are globalists on both sides of the aisle . Bush signed the Agenda 21 agreement .

[talaniman]

Modern capitalism is for the elites who fund the think tanks and Super Pacs to craft state laws that maximize profits by eroding the federal governments ability to make fair rules and regulations that make public safety and accountability a non existent entity.

You only have to read your basic contracts to see how they can extract hidden fees, raise interest rates, and buy and sell your credit through what they call investment (schemes) to create lucrative revenue streams into perpetuity. I also think you cannot even say modern capitalist without framing it around the venture capitalist business model.

Supply money without demand and leverage huge profits and protect them in bankruptcy. Shift costs from corporate coffers to government programs and realize the profits from relieved responsibilities and liabilities.

Modern venture capitalism creates no value but to the investors, and needs no demands but those of the investors. Consumer, and citizens need not apply. LOL, want to be an entrepreneur? Not without a bank or rich guy on your side, or sizable collateral.

When you speak of science, you better check with the corporation that makes money off the science, or lack thereof. Science has always taken a back seat to the monied interests that hold the patents on whatever ideas a scientist can come up with.

[tomder55]

Science has always taken a back seat to the monied interests that hold the patents on whatever ideas a scientist can come up with.

yes someone needs to fund science. What you think that if government is funding it ;then the science is as pure as the driven snow ? All I have to say about that is East Anglia.. hide the decline.
Or a more recent example is the subject of this posting ;or Andrew Cuomo suppressing the results of studies about fracking .

[speechlesstx]

The point of this thread is the blatant hypocrisy of the Obama administration.

Obama vowed to change “the posture of our federal government from being one of the most anti-science administrations in American history to one that embraces science and technology.”

In 2009 he issued a memorandum stating “political officials should not suppress or alter scientific or technological findings and conclusions"

And yet he suppressed scientific findings during the election cycle. You guys would have jumped all over Bush for such an act and there would be a media frenzy. As usual, we hear crickets chirping when it comes to Obama...

[joypulv]

THE FDA DOES NOT SCIENTIFIC FINDINGS MAKE.
They are a front for corporations, with a few begrudging concessions here and there just to stay alive.
I wouldn't jump on any president for doing this over fish,

[paraclete]

THE FDA DOES NOT SCIENTIFIC FINDINGS MAKE.
They are a front for corporations, with a few begrudging concessions here and there just to stay alive.

You could say the same about the EPA

[joypulv]

You could say the same about the EPA

I do.

[speechlesstx]

Apparently Obama can't be held accountable for anything...

[talaniman]

So because he hasn't made a speech about it then he is suppressing the report? That's a stretch at best since any scientific report is subject to peer review and the congress has already said they will suppress or ban any actions that come from the finding of the FDA.The whole world is questioning the science behind GMO products.

This ain't about science its about its about economy that I addressed in my last post.

Modern venture capitalism creates no value but to the investors, and needs no demands but those of the investors. Consumer, and citizens need not apply. LOL, want to be an entrepreneur? Not without a bank or rich guy on your side, or sizable collateral.

When you speak of science, you better check with the corporation that makes money off the science, or lack thereof. Science has always taken a back seat to the monied interests that hold the patents on whatever ideas a scientist can come up with.

The conspiracy is about the money to be made or lost. Check with your congress on that one.

[tomder55]

Yeah Luddites still question the science of GMO . There is a chance to eradicate hunger ;and that chance is in GMO .

[Tuttyd]

The point of this thread is the blatant hypocrisy of the Obama administration.



And yet he suppressed scientific findings during the election cycle. You guys would have jumped all over Bush for such an act and there would be a media frenzy. As usual, we hear crickets chirping when it comes to Obama...

I attempted to answer the question in the very first post. But perhaps I left out an important bit.

Science is a two edged sword in politics regardless of who is in power politicians embrace science because of the advantages it can afford them. Because science can produced unexpected social, moral and political implications there is always a danger that the science will work against their party.

I think the bit you are looking for is the fact that politician who says they are embracing science and technology and does the opposite is without doubt a hypocrite.