Ask Experts Questions for FREE Help !
Ask
    Tuttyd's Avatar
    Tuttyd Posts: 53, Reputation: 4
    Junior Member
     
    #521

    Jan 22, 2013, 06:42 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by tomder55 View Post
    Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.
    Where is this from Tom?
    tomder55's Avatar
    tomder55 Posts: 1,742, Reputation: 346
    Ultra Member
     
    #522

    Jan 22, 2013, 06:49 AM
    The Declaration of Independence
    Wondergirl's Avatar
    Wondergirl Posts: 39,354, Reputation: 5431
    Jobs & Parenting Expert
     
    #523

    Jan 22, 2013, 06:51 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by tomder55 View Post
    the Declaration of Independence
    I had Googled it and had found a modern-day translation. How does it fit with the current discussion?
    Tuttyd's Avatar
    Tuttyd Posts: 53, Reputation: 4
    Junior Member
     
    #524

    Jan 22, 2013, 06:57 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by Wondergirl View Post
    I had Googled it and had found a modern-day translation. How does it fit with the current discussion?
    It looks like a partial quote. I would have thought it wasn't relevant, but the whole quote would probably help decide.
    tomder55's Avatar
    tomder55 Posts: 1,742, Reputation: 346
    Ultra Member
     
    #525

    Jan 22, 2013, 06:59 AM
    I am frankly amazed that you can't think of a scenario where our government would become intolerable despotic . I dare say that most of the 2000s the left had a different opinion of the administration. Or was that just hyperbole ? All that talk of abuses of rights that the left claimed were initiated by our response to GWOT .
    tomder55's Avatar
    tomder55 Posts: 1,742, Reputation: 346
    Ultra Member
     
    #526

    Jan 22, 2013, 07:00 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by Tuttyd View Post
    It looks like a partial quote. I would have thought it wasn't relevant, but the whole quote would probably help decide.
    Geeeze... I'll give you the whole paragraph

    We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.--Such has been the patient sufferance of these Colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government. The history of the present King of Great Britain is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute Tyranny over these States. To prove this, let Facts be submitted to a candid world.
    Wondergirl's Avatar
    Wondergirl Posts: 39,354, Reputation: 5431
    Jobs & Parenting Expert
     
    #527

    Jan 22, 2013, 08:30 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by tomder55 View Post
    I am frankly amazed that you can't think of a scenario where our government would become intolerable despotic . I dare say that most of the 2000s the left had a different opinion of the administration. Or was that just hyperbole ? all that talk of abuses of rights that the left claimed were initiated by our response to GWOT .
    But the government under Bush wasn't intolerably despotic or tyrannical. The left knew things would swing in their direction, and they did (and they made sure it would). Now the right is scheming to turn things in its direction in 2016.
    NeedKarma's Avatar
    NeedKarma Posts: 10,635, Reputation: 1706
    Uber Member
     
    #528

    Jan 22, 2013, 08:33 AM
    But the government under Bush wasn't intolerably despotic or tyrannical.
    Well you did lose an awful lot of your privacy during those years.
    Wondergirl's Avatar
    Wondergirl Posts: 39,354, Reputation: 5431
    Jobs & Parenting Expert
     
    #529

    Jan 22, 2013, 08:39 AM
    Quote Originally Posted by NeedKarma View Post
    Well you did lose an awful lot of your privacy during those years.
    And it hasn't been restored.
    excon's Avatar
    excon Posts: 21,482, Reputation: 2992
    Uber Member
     
    #530

    Jan 22, 2013, 08:40 AM
    Hello NK:

    Well you did lose an awful lot of your privacy during those years.
    I thought is was despotic and tyrannical, and I SAID so. And, if Obama was going to DESTROY the 2nd Amendment like Bush destroyed the 4th, and the 5th, I'd be YELLING about that too..

    But, the 4th and the 5th Amendments were, in the real world, ACTUALLY DESTROYED. The notion that Obama is going to take your guns resides ONLY in the heads of right wingers.

    Excon
    tomder55's Avatar
    tomder55 Posts: 1,742, Reputation: 346
    Ultra Member
     
    #531

    Jan 22, 2013, 09:17 AM
    The only way the President will get new laws passed through even the Senate will be if Harry Reid gets his plan to blow up the fillibuster rules. He should tread softly with that idea because eventually the Repubics (or the next party that takes their place ) will have the majority .
    On a straight majority vote ,he may not be able to even hold his majority on gun control . There are nine Senate Dems,and “independent” Maine Sen. Angus King,who would vote against at this time. With rule changes Obama may be able to pull off another Stupak Amendment end around to convince some of the suckers... or do some arm twisting... but I doubt it .
    excon's Avatar
    excon Posts: 21,482, Reputation: 2992
    Uber Member
     
    #532

    Jan 22, 2013, 09:38 AM
    Hello again, tom:

    the only way the President will get new laws passed through even the Senate will be if Harry Reid gets his plan to blow up the filibuster rules.
    It's true. But, he'd like to get a law passed now and then, so he's probably going to blow up the filibuster.

    Otherwise, as you say, they'll BLOCK every piece of legislation that comes down the pike, just like they did last time.

    I do agree that it's a drastic move.. But, the Republicans DESERVE it. Moreover, the country deserves a congress that WORKS, and if it takes this to make it WORK, so be it.

    Excon
    earl237's Avatar
    earl237 Posts: 532, Reputation: 57
    Senior Member
     
    #533

    Jan 22, 2013, 10:37 AM
    I don't understand why the NRA has such an extreme all or nothing attitude about gun laws, even most gun owners support sensible gun laws. Gun rights groups always mention Switzerland and Israel's high gun ownership, but they leave out the fact that they have sensible laws, you need a licence to buy most types of guns in Switzerland and owning a gun is seen as a privilege with responsibilities to serve your country, not an absolute right.
    talaniman's Avatar
    talaniman Posts: 54,325, Reputation: 10855
    Expert
     
    #534

    Jan 22, 2013, 10:58 AM
    I hope Harry gives us the two years of breathing space because we need it NOW!

    I don't understand why the NRA has such an extreme all or nothing attitude about gun laws,
    Its about the money, what you think they care about ANY BODY'S rights? Just their right to make money, by any means necessary. Ask the right why they say nothing of the tyranny of capitalism.
    paraclete's Avatar
    paraclete Posts: 2,706, Reputation: 173
    Ultra Member
     
    #535

    Jan 22, 2013, 06:13 PM
    Come on Tal you know tyranny is when the other side rules, when you are not allowed to exploit, to make profits without limit
    mr.yet's Avatar
    mr.yet Posts: 1,725, Reputation: 176
    Ultra Member
     
    #536

    Jan 23, 2013, 05:41 PM
    Today Show - no rifles used in Newtown shooting. - YouTube

    No assault weapon at sandy Hook school. But the pundits used it to enrage the politcians and the public to ban the weapon. More lies again.
    paraclete's Avatar
    paraclete Posts: 2,706, Reputation: 173
    Ultra Member
     
    #537

    Jan 23, 2013, 05:53 PM
    All you are saying is greater control of hand guns is needed
    smearcase's Avatar
    smearcase Posts: 2,392, Reputation: 316
    Ultra Member
     
    #538

    Jan 23, 2013, 07:47 PM
    Commenter on YouTube (below video) says (in part):

    CT State Police posted on Jan 18th.

    Seized inside the school:

    #1. Bushmaster .223 caliber- model XM15-E2S rifle with high capacity 30 round magazine

    #2. Glock 10 mm handgun

    #3. Sig-Sauer P226 9mm handgun

    Seized from suspect's car in parking lot:

    #4. Izhmash Canta-12 12 gauge Shotgun (seized from car in parking lot)

    But there were no rifles used in the school?
    Was the above report a mistake?
    cdad's Avatar
    cdad Posts: 12,700, Reputation: 1438
    Internet Research Expert
     
    #539

    Jan 23, 2013, 07:53 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by mr.yet View Post
    Today Show - no rifles used in Newtown shooting. - YouTube

    No assualt weapon at sandy Hook school. But the pundits used it to enrage the politcians and the public to ban the weapon. More lies again.
    This is an old report and it was done in the heat of the moment. 12/15/12


    Here is another site to clear the matter up. 1/21/13



    UPDATE: State Police Confirm Weapons Used in Newtown Shootings Independent Journal Review




    Here is yet another debate on the controversy. 1/23/13

    Assault Weapon At Sandy Hook Or Not? Coroner Vs MSNBC | Peace . Gold . Liberty



    Lets keep things clear so good decisions can be made and not just jump on anything that comes by.
    cdad's Avatar
    cdad Posts: 12,700, Reputation: 1438
    Internet Research Expert
     
    #540

    Jan 23, 2013, 07:55 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by smearcase View Post
    Commenter on youtube (below video) says (in part):

    CT State Police posted on Jan 18th.

    Seized inside the school:

    #1. Bushmaster .223 caliber- model XM15-E2S rifle with high capacity 30 round magazine

    #2. Glock 10 mm handgun

    #3. Sig-Sauer P226 9mm handgun

    Seized from suspect’s car in parking lot:

    #4. Izhmash Canta-12 12 gauge Shotgun (seized from car in parking lot)

    But there were no rifles used in the school?
    Was the above report a mistake?


    Yes, I believe it was a mistake by the media to rush ahead of the story without gathering facts.

Not your question? Ask your question View similar questions

 

Question Tools Search this Question
Search this Question:

Advanced Search

Add your answer here.


Check out some similar questions!

Gun Control... it didn't take long [ 1292 Answers ]

I won't go into hysterics that Obama is going to take away our guns. Just one question. If the US backs a UN Treaty to restrict small arms ,what is the law of the land ? The treaty ,or the Constitution of the land... specifically the 2nd Amendment ? After Obama win, U.S. backs new U.N....

Gun control. My thoughts. Just shoot me now. This thread won't end well. [ 332 Answers ]

Okay, I do have thoughts on gun control, and I promised to start a thread where we could discuss guns, and peoples thoughts on guns. But I didn't start the thread about the Connecticut massacre to discuss gun control. That was about the families and their loss. So, to keep that Connecticut...

Gun control by fiat? [ 17 Answers ]

Who needs a congress? King Obama is reportedly working on gun control "under the radar" by way of executive order or regulatory means. WaPo did a story on White House gun control czar Steve Crowley which had this little tidbit that just almost escaped notice. I'm sure that is "under the...

Gun Control [ 29 Answers ]

Hello: The killer we've been talking about was subdued AFTER he emptied his magazine and before he could insert another. He was using 30 round clips. THOSE clips were illegal under the Assault Weapons Ban that EXPIRED under Bush and was not reinstated. If it HAD been reinstated, the killer...

Gun control and socialized medicine in Europe [ 1 Answers ]

Are any countries in Europe that do not have either gun control laws or socialized medicine? I know they're very "europe-y" things to do, but I don't know if the EU requires them, or if a bunch of countries just decided to institute them. (I know the exact polices vary a bit, so I'm guessing it's...


View more questions Search