[tomder55]

But on a positive side ;the petitions to deport Piers Morgan is gaining momentum.to date ;75,000 have signed it.
https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/pet...dment/prfh5zHD
One problem however . There is a similar petition in the UK saying they don't want him back .

[paraclete]

I have never heard of a more stupid attitude than arming teachers so people can own guns. That is selling out the children, needing armed security guards in schools also speaks to the same stupidity, still I expect the stupid people have to live somewhere

[speechlesstx]

Hello wingers:

I dunno that ANYBODY said they were suspected of anything. They're gun owners. They had to APPLY for a permit.. The permit is PUBLIC information.

That's it. Ain't nothing more complicated than that.

excon

It was unethical, ain't nothing more complicated than that.

[excon]

Hello again, Steve:

For a guy who LIKES the First Amendment, you DON'T like it very much.

excon

[speechlesstx]

I have never heard of a more stupid attitude than arming teachers so people can own guns. That is selling out the children, needing armed security guards in schools also speaks to the same stupidity, still I expect the stupid people have to live somewhere

So protecting the children is selling them out. Now that's stupidity.

[tomder55]

Wealthy libs already send their kids to secure schools. They just don't want to pay for poor kids to get the same protection. Forget arming the teachers ;they don't even want to fence in the perimeter of the school and have 1 armed guard . No one is saying EVERY teacher should be armed . It should work like the Air Marshall service . No one knows which person in the school is authorized to carry.

[speechlesstx]

Hello again, Steve:

For a guy who LIKES the First Amendment, you DON'T like it very much.

excon

You're chasing your tail, I've already defended their right to do so. There is however nothing ethical about painting a target on law abiding citizens for no damn good reason.

[excon]

Hello again, tom:

they don't even want to fence in the perimeter of the school and have 1 armed guard .

What about the movie goers? Aren't THEY entitled to protection? How about shoppers at the mall? In fact, if you REALLY want to protect people, we'd need an armed guard on EVERY street corner..

In fact, here's what a Texas Republican congressman says about that:

School shootings, no matter how horrific, do not justify creating an Orwellian surveillance state in America,” the Republican congressman said in a statement Monday. Paul is the first GOP member in Congress to publicly oppose the NRA's plan. “Do we really want to live in a world of police checkpoints, surveillance cameras, metal detectors, X-ray scanners, and warrantless physical searches?" -Ron Paul

excon

[speechlesstx]

We already have mall security and a lot of schools have had metal detectors and cops for years. That's a bad thing now?

[tomder55]

What about the movie goers? Aren't THEY entitled to protection? How about shoppers at the mall? In fact, if you REALLY want to protect people, we'd need an armedguard on EVERY street corner

You know what that publishing of the gun owners address does ? It tells the thugs the homes to avoid.

Yes it may come down to that . You think your gun ban is going to prevent it ? I see a possibility that we may end up like Tel Aviv where such security is considered and accepted as SOP.

[excon]

Hello again, tom:

we may end up like Tel Aviv where such security is considered and accepted as SOP.

Speaking of the Israeli's, we SHOULD be more like them..

When it comes to Israel and school shootings, Wayne LaPierre doesn't know what he's talking about, Israeli security experts said Sunday.

“We didn't have a series of school shootings, and they had nothing to do with the issue at hand in the United States. We had to deal with terrorism,” said Palmor.

“What removed the danger was not the armed guards but an overall anti-terror policy and anti-terror operations which brought street terrorism down to nearly zero over a number of years,” he said. “It would be better not to drag Israel into what is an internal American discussion,” he added.

“There is no comparison between maniacs with psychological problems opening fire at random to kill innocent people and trained terrorists trying to murder Israeli children,” said Reuven Berko, a retired Israeli Army colonel and senior police officer.

In recent years, restrictions on gun ownership in Israel have been tightened, not relaxed.

excon

[tomder55]

There is no comparison between maniacs with psychological problems opening fire at random to kill innocent people and trained terrorists trying to murder Israeli children,” said Reuven Berko, a retired Israeli Army colonel and senior police officer.

I beg to differ and so does Adam Lankford ,assistant professor of criminal justice at the University of Alabama, and author of “The Myth of Martyrdom: What Really Drives Suicide Bombers, Rampage Shooters, and Other Self-Destructive Killers.”

There appears to be a triad of factors that sets these killers apart. The first is that they are generally struggling with mental health problems that have produced their desire to die. The specific psychiatric diagnoses vary widely, and include everything from clinical depression and post-traumatic stress disorder to schizophrenia and others forms of psychosis. The suicide rate was 12.4 per 100,000 people in the United States in 2010 (the highest in 15 years). Suicide is relatively rare, but it is rarer still in most Muslim countries. This is a very limited pool from which most suicide terrorists and rampage shooters come.

The second factor is a deep sense of victimization and belief that the killer's life has been ruined by someone else, who has bullied, oppressed or persecuted him. Not surprisingly, the presence of mental illness can inflame these beliefs, leading perpetrators to have irrational and exaggerated perceptions of their own victimization. It makes little difference whether the perceived victimizer is an enemy government (in the case of suicide terrorists) or their boss, co-workers, fellow students or family members (in the case of rampage shooters).

The key is that the aggrieved individual feels that he has been terribly mistreated and that violent vengeance is justified. In many cases, the target for revenge becomes broader and more symbolic than a single person, so that an entire type or category of people is deemed responsible for the attacker's pain and suffering. Then, the urge to commit suicide becomes a desire for murder-suicide, which is even rarer; a recent meta-analysis of 16 studies suggests that only two to three of every one million Americans commit murder-suicide each year.

The third factor is the desire to acquire fame and glory through killing. More than 70 percent of murder-suicides are between spouses or romantic or sexual partners, and these crimes usually take place at home. Attackers who commit murder-suicide in public are far more brazen and unusual. Most suicide terrorists believe they will be honored and celebrated as “martyrs” after their deaths and, sure enough, terrorist organizations produce martyrdom videos and memorabilia so that other desperate souls will volunteer to blow themselves up.

Similarly, rampage shooters have often been captivated by the idea that they will become posthumously famous. “Isn't it fun to get the respect that we're going to deserve?” the Columbine shooter Eric Harris remarked. He had fantasized with his fellow attacker, Dylan Klebold, that the filmmakers Steven Spielberg and Quentin Tarantino would fight over the rights to their life story.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/12/18/op...lers.html?_r=0
Reuven Berko can deny it all he wants . Ma'alot school had a massacre in 1974 in which 21 Israeli children were murdered ,that was a prelude for many subsequent attacks on Israeli schools. As a result , Israel has lived for thirty years with armed security in every school, armed guards on every field trip,at sporting event,and armored busses and armed security on those busses.

[Tuttyd]

So protecting the children is selling them out. Now that's stupidity.

It seems to me that many of the solutions being proposed in a number of posts - somehow resemble solutions that are required for countries that have a demilitarized zone.

[paraclete]

Sorry I don't get that one Tut

[paraclete]

So protecting the children is selling them out. Now that's stupidity.

Well speech there is stupidity and there is stupidity, they say that if you keep doing the same thing and expect change that is stupidity, so go figure, you get more guns, you get more security and more children die, I would say something ain't working, but stupid me, I should get a gun and shot someone

[Tuttyd]

sorry i don't get that one Tut

Hi Clete,

I am saying basically the same thing as yourself. I think it is an extraordinary bad idea to train kids to create a distraction. This is not protecting anyone let alone the kids.

I think it is a very bad idea to train armed teachers to confront gunmen.

I think it is a bad idea to publish names of people who hold a gun permit.

What about the idea that if more people had more guns then someone would have able to stop a mass shooting. In the last three or four decades how many armed citizens have successfully managed to prevent such a terrible crime? I would think only a tiny percentage. That's not counting the ones killed or injured in the attempt.

Tut

[tomder55]

In the last three or four decades how many armed citizens have successfully managed to prevent such a terrible crime?

one possible common denominator is that these attacks occure in recognized 'gun free zones' . The theater ,the schools around the country have adopted not only gun free zones on their property ,but also in a radius surrounding them. Va Tech was a gun free campus.

[Tuttyd]

one possible common denominator is that these attacks occure in recognized 'gun free zones' . The theater ,the schools around the country have adopted not only gun free zones on their property ,but also in a radius surrounding them. Va Tech was a gun free campus.

No, its not a common denominator. Show me that it is.You are going to have to do better than this.


Tut

[tomder55]

Yes it is . Colorado and Virginia are conceal and carry states ;EXCEPT at the Century 16 theater complex in Aurora ; and the Va Tech campus,where Seung-Hui Cho shot 32 people to death . Nobody there were able to exercise their right to self defense .

Compare that to the 2007 New Life Church in Colorado Springs incident where a gunman opened fire and killed 2 church members . That tragedy could've been much worse if not for an armed guard who shot the gunman LONG before the local police arrived . Just this year at New Destiny Christian Church in Aurora , a gunman opened fire killing the mother of Pastor Delano Strahan . Before he could do any more damage ,a congregent carrying a concealed weapon shot the gunman down.
October 1997 at a Pearl, Miss. High school there was a shooting that left two students dead.Assistant principal Joel Myrick retrieved a gun from his car and immobilized the shooter until police arrived, preventing further killings. Technically he was in violation of Federal law for even having the gun in his car .January 2002 at the Appalachian School of Law in Virginia, a disgruntled former student killed Law Dean L. Anthony Sutin, associate professor Thomas Blackwell and a student. 3 Virginia law students overpowered the gunman preventing further deaths.Two were armed . February 2007, at a Salt Lake City mall, armed off-duty police officer Ken Hammond killed Sulejman Talovic after he had killed five people, preventing an even larger massacre.

So as the mass murders of recent times can be documented ,so too can the ones where prevented larger killings . I'll take my chances with the friendly carrying a gun.

[Tuttyd]

yes it is . Colorado and Virginia are conceal and carry states ;EXCEPT at the Century 16 theater complex in Aurora ; and the Va Tech campus,where Seung-Hui Cho shot 32 people to death . Nobody there were able to exercise their right to self defense .

Tom, this doesn't constitute a common denominator by any stretch of the imagination. You did say common denominator didn't you?;

Compare that to the 2007 New Life Church in Colorado Springs incident where a gunman opened fire and killed 2 church members . That tragedy could've been much worse if not for an armed guard who shot the gunman LONG before the local police arrived . Just this year at New Destiny Christian Church in Aurora , a gunman opened fire killing the mother of Pastor Delano Strahan . Before he could do any more damage ,a congregent carrying a concealed weapon shot the gunman down.
October 1997 at a Pearl, Miss. high school there was a shooting that left two students dead.Assistant principal Joel Myrick retrieved a gun from his car and immobilized the shooter until police arrived, preventing further killings. Technically he was in violation of Federal law for even having the gun in his car .January 2002 at the Appalachian School of Law in Virginia, a disgruntled former student killed Law Dean L. Anthony Sutin, associate professor Thomas Blackwell and a student. 3 Virginia law students overpowered the gunman preventing further deaths.Two were armed . February 2007, at a Salt Lake City mall, armed off-duty police officer Ken Hammond killed Sulejman Talovic after he had killed five people, preventing an even larger massacre.

So as the mass murders of recent times can be documented ,so too can the ones where prevented larger killings . I'll take my chances with the friendly carrying a gun.

Compare what? I think I already covered this. The information at I have googled says that in the last four decades( the time I was referring to) a citizen intervention only represents at about 1.6 percent out of the total of 68 mass shootings that were investigated.

I have no doubt that this information was cherry-picked. However, no amount of creative cherry picking can make that tiny percentage look anything like significant.

Tut