[pelle]

Hello all,
I recently installed a pool and back deck. The pool is 100 feet from my main panel in my basement. I ran a 20 amp single pull GFI with 10-2 wire to a junction box 50 feet away in my basement. From here I ran conduit out to the pool with 3-12 gauge wires black, white and green all thhn wire. I wired a 20 amp plug with twist connect for the pump. I ran a another circuit to the deck in the same manner except this is 12 gauge all the way. Both of these circuit share the junction box and 1 inch conduit until it splits off outside and goes their own way. The circuits are completely separate wiring just a shared junction and a short run of conduit.
Now the question: The inspector stated I have to remove the 10-2 wire and replace it with 12-3 and cut and tape off the red wire. I also have to replace the 12-2 with 12-3 doing the same thing. (The romex wire does not leave the basement it terminates in the junction box.) At first I thought he wanted to use the red wire as a coated ground but I can not find anything in the code book about having to have a coated ground in a building.
Any help on this would be great as he won't issue a inspection until I make these "repairs"..

Thanks in advance!

[stanfortyman]

Did he give you are a reason for this crazy request? If he is telling you to use 3-wire and use the red for a ground he is even more crazy as this is asking you to create a direct violation since red cannot be a ground.

Within the structure for a single family dwelling, the circuit to a pool motor can be NM cable. Once the circuit leaves the structure it must be conductors in conduit with an insulated ground. It would appear you followed this to the letter.
The circuit for the convenience receptacle does not apply and can be any legal wiring method you prefer.

#4 below is what you are looking for.

680.21 Motors.

(A) Wiring Methods. The wiring to a pool motor shall comply with (A)(1) unless modified for specific circumstances by (A)(2), (A)(3), (A)(4), or (A)(5). See related UL

(1) General. The branch circuits for pool-associated motors shall be installed in rigid metal conduit, intermediate metal conduit, rigid polyvinyl chloride conduit, reinforced thermosetting resin conduit, or Type MC cable listed for the location. Other wiring methods and materials shall be permitted in specific locations or applications as covered in this section. Any wiring method employed shall contain an insulated copper equipment grounding conductor sized in accordance with 250.122 but not smaller than 12 AWG.

Type MC cable listed for the application is permitted as a wiring method for swimming pool motor circuits. This listing requirement ensures that the MC cable is suitable for the environmental and installation conditions typically encountered with swimming pool pump motors. Type MC cables listed for installation in direct sunlight or direct burial are marked to indicate suitability for such applications.

Other than cable assemblies installed on the interior of a one-family dwelling per 680.21(A)(4), wiring methods used for the supply circuit to a swimming pool pump motor must include an insulated, copper equipment grounding conductor not less than 12 AWG.

(2) On or Within Buildings. Where installed on or within buildings, electrical metallic tubing shall be permitted.

(3) Flexible Connections. Where necessary to employ flexible connections at or adjacent to the motor, liquidtight flexible metal or liquidtight flexible nonmetallic conduit with approved fittings shall be permitted.

(4) One-Family Dwellings. In the interior of dwelling units, or in the interior of accessory buildings associated with a dwelling unit, any of the wiring methods recognized in Chapter 3 of this Code that comply with the provisions of this section shall be permitted. Where run in a cable assembly, the equipment grounding conductor shall be permitted to be uninsulated, but it shall be enclosed within the outer sheath of the cable assembly.

[hfcarson]

Pelle,
Please write back if you get a description from the Inspector that
Explains why... especially if he quotes the code!

[pelle]

I have a call scheduled with him next week to find out what he is talking about. I was not here when he arrived and he spoke with someone else. More to come...

[shuntripper]

Inspector is seeing 10awg wire in the panel and you have gone to a smaller size down stream in the junction box, that is why he should accept #10 the rest of the way (easier since it isn't romex?) instead of goofy change the 12-2 to 12-3.

Tried to think like an ignorant boob (inspector), maybe he thinks he's going to hook both hots together to make a parallel feed that will be safe in case another boob puts a 30A CB on the #10 wire at the panel? No, he says cut and tape the thing? What could possibly be the reason to run another wire and then disable it?

Or (only logical answer) he's trying to save you some $ and you only have a 12-3 cable and were complaining maybe about the extra expense to make the changes. The only real issue is that you have #10 wire at the panel and sized it down to #12 downstream which is unsafe, unwise, and illegal. I also suspect that there is a modicum of miscommunication between you and the inspector

Another edit: and you got the info secondhand? Yup somebody got it wrong

[pelle]

Finally spoke with the inspector: He wants me to change the 12-2 to 12-3, cut off the bare, and tape the red to green and use it as a covered ground. I think this is over kill especially since the romex does not leave the dwelling it switches to 3 covered black, white and green conductors before it leaves the basement and enters the conduit.
Anybody have any experience if what he is asking is code. This is in NYS.

Thanks for your input.

[stanfortyman]

I'm sorry, but the inspector is an idiot!

What he is suggesting is a CODE VIOLATION, and for him to even suggest this is appalling!

Please ask him to show you exactly where in the code this is required. He cannot require you to do anything that is not written in the NYS resi code, so if he cannot provide the proper code citation then he has no basis for the request.

You can cite 680.21(A)(4) in your defence.

May I ask what part of NYS you are in?

[pelle]

Stan, I am in upstate NY. Not Yonkers, west of Syracuse. I had a copy of the code in front of me (the one you posted earlier) and stated right from it when I spoke with him. At that point he stated you can do what you want but I (the inspector) was in a seminar about this very matter. I said OK, but all I have to do is meet code not what you recommend. Might be looking for another inspector real soon.

[Stratmando]

Never heard of it, onlly reasoning I could see is to not have a Bare Ground, which, if covered, would be safer.
I only use PVC, and the Ground has insulation.
An Exposed Ground, compared to Insulated, in a panel, does have a higher risk of shock if you don't pay attention.
Never heard of that code, but it is always changing.
Maybe he could give you the Code.

[stanfortyman]

Stan, I am in upstate NY. Not Yonkers, west of Syracuse. I had a copy of the code in front of me (the one you posted earlier) and stated right from it when I spoke with him. At that point he stated you can do what you want but I (the inspector) was in a seminar about this very matter. I said ok, but all i have to do is meet code not what you recommend. Might be looking for another inspector real soon.

I would be very curious to know what "seminar" he was referring to. Hearing it in a seminar, and being able to quote you a code section, are two very different things.

He is completely nuts here and you can quote me on that. Also quote my previous reply that he is suggesting you create a direct code violation if you installed it the way he wanted.

The good thing about NYS is that you can find another inspector that maybe has a clue. In the meantime you can go over this guy's head and let his superiors know of his incompetence.