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bobsleder · Aug 24, 2012, 11:00 AM

Originally Posted by JudyKayTee

Yes, all AA chapters are "God/religion" driven. I've seen people in my local Courts being given two options - AA or jail.

I am not aware of any Court-recognized alternatives.

AA isn't just about God - it's also about family, morals and responsibility.

If blah, blah, blah is not your style, call AA and ask them for any alternatives. Maybe one-on-one counselling would be acceptable to both the Military and the Court.

AA cannot be mandated by the courts in your country. It is considered a breach of your religious freedoms (forcing a religion down your throat). Maybe they can get away with it in the military. The two largest non-religious groups in the states are SOS (Secular Organization for Sobriety) and RR (Rational Recovery) . If you don't believe in Mr. Magican in the sky who will save you then AA may be entirely counter productive to you. Anyway, my sense is that you are not really really interested in quiting for the rest of your life, only for a while to get out of the mess you are in. In which case no program is going to be worth much.

DrBill100 · Aug 24, 2012, 12:00 PM

Originally Posted by bobsleder

AA cannot be mandated by the courts in your country. It is considered a breach of your religious freedoms (forcing a religion down your throat). Maybe they can get away with it in the military. The two largest non-religious groups in the states are SOS (Secular Organization for Sobriety) and RR (Rational Recovery) . If you dont believe in Mr. Magican in the sky who will save you then AA may be entirely counter productive to you. Anyways, my sense is that you are not really really interested in quiting for the rest of your life, only for a while to get out of the mess you are in. In which case no program is going to be worth much.

Notwithstanding, AA is a regular and customary requirement of drug and other courts in the US. Recent figures from AA Central Office indicate that fully 1/3 of AA membership is now comprised of court mandated attendees.

bobsleder · Aug 24, 2012, 12:09 PM

Fair enough. I know that when forced memebership in AA has been challenged in the States, the higher courts have deemed AA to be a religion and therefor the accused could not be forced to attend. Sad state of affairs if the courts are still forcing people to go to AA. It's bad for AA, and bad for the person who is forced to go. "AA is not for those who need it, it is for those who want it."

DrBill100 · Aug 24, 2012, 12:52 PM

Originally Posted by bobsleder

Fair enough. I know that when forced memebership in AA has been challenged in the States, the higher courts have deemed AA to be a religion and therefor the accused could not be forced to attend. Sad state of affairs if the courts are still forcing people to go to AA. It's bad for AA, and bad for the person who is forced to go. "AA is not for those who need it, it is for those who want it."

Agreed. Dr Bob went to great lengths in researching the formation and operation of previous self-help support groups dating back to the Washingtonians of the 1840s prior to structuring AA. The fundamental design of the organization seems ill-suited to mandated attendance nor was such use contemplated by the founders.

Nonetheless, the reality is that in recent years AA has increasingly aligned with medical based treatment groups and then court programs. I was very surprised at the proportion of membership now attributed to court referral. History will pronounce the benefit or detriment of the practice but I should imagine Dr. Bob and Bill W would not have sanctioned the movement.

However, the benefit one derives from AA regardless of how introduced remains largely one of personal choice and perceived benefit. Take it or leave it. It's up to the individual. To some, even most, it's an encumbrance, an imposition and sentence. To a few it is a "God-send", so to speak.

JudyKayTee · Aug 24, 2012, 02:41 PM

Originally Posted by bobsleder

Fair enough. I know that when forced memebership in AA has been challenged in the States, the higher courts have deemed AA to be a religion and therefor the accused could not be forced to attend. Sad state of affairs if the courts are still forcing people to go to AA. It's bad for AA, and bad for the person who is forced to go. "AA is not for those who need it, it is for those who want it."

Do you have a link or site for the Court challenges of AA? I cannot find anything of value.

ITstudent2006 · Aug 24, 2012, 03:34 PM

Originally Posted by ;

Anyways, my sense is that you are not really really interested in quiting for the rest of your life, only for a while to get out of the mess you are in.

I suppose you're right here. But, I will make the most of it when I go. I will not blow it off knowing that I will continue to drink later.

Alty · Aug 24, 2012, 04:00 PM

IT, I've had a few friends in AA. This is actually the first time that I've heard that it's religion based.

Bottom line, it's about helping you to quit drinking. Whenever you see the word God, replace it with word Dog and make it your own. The program works, and when it works God has nothing to do with it. It's all you.

I'm not religious either. I wouldn't hesitate when it came to this program. I think you'll be shocked to find that the majority of the people in AA don't believe in God. Those are the people you'll be interacting with. Those are the people that will get you through this program. Them, but most importantly you. God has nothing to do with it. :)