[Alty]

And him biting you endlessly and not stopping is one of them.

I agree.

And avoiding the problem by putting him in the yard and pretending it doesn't exist will create a whole new slew of problems.

[FarmingNana]

I agree.

And avoiding the problem by putting him in the yard and pretending it doesn't exist will create a whole new slew of problems.

WOW, you all are really getting way off course. Pretending he doesn't exist?? I understand some of you are educated in animal behavior and I respect that but to tell me I need to rehome my dog because I don't know how to care for him is ridiculous. Some one was saying how their dog can sit, stay, whatever. My puppy is staying, sitting, down, heeling, fetching and will give you five. When I was younger I learned obedience training and showed my dog. I know how to train them. You all are assuming a lot.

[JudyKayTee]

WOW, you all are really getting way off course. Pretending he doesn't exist???? I understand some of you are educated in animal behavior and I respect that but to tell me I need to rehome my dog because I don't know how to care for him is ridiculous. Some one was saying how their dog can sit, stay, whatever. My puppy is staying, sitting, down, heeling, fetching and will give you five. When I was younger I learned obedience training and showed my dog. I know how to train them. You all are assuming alot.

Nana, in all honesty - why do you keep coming back to this thread to explain yourself? Everyone has had a say.

I think this is beating a dead horse.

[FarmingNana]

Is your puppy 12 weeks old?

You said that you've had dogs all your life. Do you not know that at 12 weeks a puppy bites? It's a form of play, and it's done to relieve the pain of teething. At 12 weeks your puppy should just be leaving his mother. Mommy would have taught him some puppy manners, but it's up to you to teach him the rest.

I'm sorry that you're tired of being accused. But if you choose to do the crime, be prepared to be accused.

My advice to you is to re-home the dog, find someone that's willing to put in the effort you aren't able to put in. That's not judgement, that's what's best for this puppy.

At 12 weeks of age he'll be easily re-homed. After years of being left in the yard, not trained, not properly socialized, when you finally get tired of the barking (he will bark, dogs that aren't allowed to be with a group, that aren't trained, that aren't walked, bark out of frustration) when you're finally tired of the biting when you go to feed him, he'll be impossible to re-home, and harder to retrain.

If you re-home him now he still has a chance. If you keep him and continue doing what you're doing, you'll only damage him further.

I'm really not trying to be mean. I'm not trying to attack you. You can't handle this dog. This dog deserves someone that can handle him and is willing to put in the time and effort. You've given up, which is why he's alone in the yard. Don't keep him just because you feel you have to. Give him up because he deserves a better life.

Edit: My husband and I both work 40 hours a week. I have a 6 month old puppy, and a 3 year old dog. My puppy doesn't bite (he's been trained not to), he's crate trained, comes when called, sits on command, lays down on command, shakes a paw, and much more. He learned all this months ago. We've had him since he was 8 weeks old. He's an indoor dog, a member of our family, and he gets a lot of attention.

Your argument that your lawn ornament (outdoor 12 week old puppy) gets more attention than someone that works 40 hours a week, doesn't hold true. My dog was better behaved at 8 weeks of age than your puppy is at 12 weeks, and my puppy is a border collie, a working breed, highly active. To top it all off, I live in the suburbs. I don't have 50 acres like you do. So give me another excuse.

Believe it or not, I am very much aware that puppies bite. Why are you trying to make me look stupid. What crime are you talking about? You say I've given up, that isn't true either. I didn't say my dog gets more attention than someone who works 40 hrs. a week. I said my dog gets more attention than some people who work 40 hrs. a week. Not all but some!!

[FarmingNana]

Nana, in all honesty - why do you keep coming back to this thread to explain yourself? Everyone has had a say.

I think this is beating a dead horse.

I'm done!

[Alty]

WOW, you all are really getting way off course. Pretending he doesn't exist?? I understand some of you are educated in animal behavior and I respect that but to tell me I need to rehome my dog because I don't know how to care for him is ridiculous. Some one was saying how their dog can sit, stay, whatever. My puppy is staying, sitting, down, heeling, fetching and will give you five. When I was younger I learned obedience training and showed my dog. I know how to train them. You all are assuming a lot.

Read my post again. I didn't say you were pretending he doesn't exist. I said you're pretending that the problem doesn't exist. There's a huge difference between "it" and "he", and reading a post in context.

Here's my exact post word for word;

And avoiding the problem by putting him in the yard and pretending it doesn't exist will create a whole new slew of problems.

As for assuming. Did you or did you not post that he has now been sequestered to the backyard, and that even though you've done this, the biting issue isn't completely resolved. Instead of training him, you've banished him. What chapter of your training book did you read that in?

[JudyKayTee]

I'm done!!

Be done from this thread - don't be done with AMHD!

Come and join on another thread. Your dog is a rescue. People are breeding and bragging about it all the time - join in and explain the other side of things, the people who do rescue dogs, the dogs that end up homeless.

[furryloo]

Wow... people are harsh aren't they? Also, if you have never owned a Great Pyr - you don't know much about the breed and many of the typical dog advice don't always work. I can understand the OP as a GP owner and as a fellow farmer.

We own a GP (have owned a few), and she also loves to be outside and is trained to protect our livestock. She is three years old and the best dog we could have ever asked for. The breed is much more independent and not as "pack oriented" as some breeds. They were bred to be with livestock full time and often the problems come when people try to turn them into "house dogs." There is a HUGE number of them in rescue because of this (I should know as we have adopted our dogs from the rescue and work them on fostering them). It does depend on the lines and their background of course. Crossing the breed can be confusing for dogs as other breeds are more pack oriented and they can wrestle with this internally. They want to be independent and protect your property AND be in your home and protect YOU. So, this can cause issues too. Although, GP traits do tend to over-ride other breeds as it seems to be more dominant.

Our GP is incredibly calm, great around children and very happy to be outside full time (with the occasional bath and brush down and overnight cuddle sessions). She is doing what she was bred for and loves it. If we did it any different, we would start having problems. Independent breeds need different kind of training and attention. We are also outside much of the time, so she is not alone or "abandoned." Most people that own farms are very much active outdoors with their dogs. Such melodramatic language on here!

To the OP, look up "Bite Inhibition" and how to work on softening this. Mouthing is normal for pups, but the focus at this age should be on softening the bite and showing through simple body language, you don't like playing with biters. Since the pup did lose it's littermates at a very young age, this is something you need to take the place of. We have seen very fast improvements in our pups with this training. Also, look up the breed of Great Pyrs. They are rarely biters but I think the problem is occurring due to having been removed from it's litter so young and poor bite inhibition training. Sometimes, this happens due to no fault of our own (rescued, etc) but it's good to know what they still need developmentally. Socializing him around other puppies and dogs can help as well. I also recommend looking up the "five critical stages" for puppies to learn more about what you can do.

So sorry you got attacked on here, not helpful at all! I hope you figured it out and if not, I am willing to offer any advice I can.

I am also posting my response as this may help someone else who ends up in this situation.

Good luck!!

[Alty]

Furryloo, not one person attacked the OP. Not one. She asked for advice and we gave her the best advice we could, not only for her, but for this puppy.

The fact is, putting a puppy outside and ignoring the issues it has, is not the way to train a puppy. If you don't agree with that then I have to ask, what experience do you have with puppies and dogs?

The OP's puppy was 12 weeks old when this thread was started. No dog, no matter the breed, is fully trained and well behaved at 12 weeks of age. Puppies require training, they do not require being sequestered in the yard because the people that had to have the cute puppy, can't handle the puppy.

That's my opinion, and it's a professional one. If you want to challenge it, that's fine, but instead of running off your mouth, show me proof that your way is the right way.

[furryloo]

Ookaaay...

Have you ever actually owned a Pyrenees? Pyrenees puppies actually do need to be left outside with live stock to bond to them. Ours were all born in the fields with sheep or goats, etc. Started their training the day they were born. Research the breed as a working dog. Talk with farmers that use them. The earlier the better, often behavior problems comes from people waiting too long to do this and bonding them to the house and people and then dog is confused. But Pyrs love to roam the propery line and guard and guard. They love having a JOB. And yes, as early as 12 weeks. It is in their blood. I believe this person when she said her puppy loves being outside. I don't think for a moment she was being intentionally cruel and abandoning it. And yes, we rescue and foster Pyrenees. They are one of the most rescued breeds as most people don't understand them and usually do a lot of the wrong thing to train them. They are working dogs at heart. Many people adopt them as house dogs when they are truly LIVE STOCK GUARD DOGS.

My intent is to help someone else with Pyrenees and prevent more rescues. We see the sad end of it and a lot of it is people not understanding the breed and expecting them to be house dogs and many trainers make it worse as their taining needs are very different. A few of them do well as house dogs (emphasis on few) but their love is to be with livestock and guard your property.

My only intent is to help anyone that adopts a Pyrenees. I'll be glad to offer training advice to anyone that asks.

[Alty]

I respect your post, and no I've never had a GP (great pyrenese).

Here's where I see an issue. The OP bought this dog as a family dog. She does have a farm, but if you read her post, she bough the dog because she heard the breed was good with kids, a family dog. She bought it with the intention of having a family pet, not a dog used with her livestock or as a guard dog.

She came here for one reason only, and that was the biting issue. She didn't come here to defend the breed. She came here because she's having issues with the breed.

She didn't do her research, she didn't know what to expect from this breed, and now, instead of dealing with the issues she's having, the dog has been put outside. She has no more idea what to do in order to train the dog to be what you say they love to be, than she does to make it what she wanted it to be.

In other words, my advice still stands. The OP should rehome this dog, and at this young age the dog will be easy to rehome, to someone like you that knows the breed and how to train it.

She doesn't, and isn't willing to listen to the advice she asked for.

If that's rude, than so be it. I'm only thinking about what's best for this dog, and the owner as well. This is not the dog she wanted. She should have gotten a poodle.

[furryloo]

Often bored puppies bite. Teething puppies bite. Sometimes biting is a symptom of something else. With Pyr puppies, allowing them to work, guard and giving them a lot exercise is crucial. If they are indoors all day, they WILL bite. And really this is true for any breed. We are training a sheep dog puppy. And as long as he gets his exercise training twice a day with the sheep and given lots of chew time - we have hardly any biting at all.

For pyr puppies, I recommend lots of outside time and exercise before trying to train them. We love this breed so much.

[furryloo]

I didn't know much about the breed when I got my first Pyreeness either. But with experience, seeking out advice and finding those with actual Pyrenees experience and wonderful people willing to help - we persevered and now I am helping others. I don't think re-homing is the automatic first answer if someone is looking and seeking for advice. And yes, Pyreenes are GREAT with children. Gentle giants. Often if a person has property, they can go on to be loving guard dogs for the home. Biting is a rare problem with Pyrenees and I am not surprised to read that once she started keeping the dog outside more, it stopped. It was probably very bored and needed a job.

I would love to hear an update from her.

[Alty]

Now that I've said this, Furryloo, stick around, your advice is welcome in the dog forum. We do our best here, but we don't know every breed. How could we? I don't own a farm, but I do have a dog that's considered a farm dog. My breed of choice is the border collie, a very famous farm dog, and in my case our latest border collie mix is from a farm, his parents are working dogs.

I live in the burbs, but I make it work, because I know the breed. I also have never had a purebred border collie, which may help a bit, but I have to say, the border collie gene is a dominant one. ;)

Right now my latest border collie mix, Rascal (he's well names) is 9 months old. I've learned to work with this work driven breed, so that he'll not only be content in the burbs, but will be a good family dog, and all of my border collie mixes have been excellent family dogs. My oldest passed away over year ago, and he was 16, mixed with a lab. My second passed away 5 months after my 16 year old, it was very sudden. He was 10 years old. I also have a beagle, a dog known for its training issues. Great family dog, wonderful with kids, but has the attention span of a gnat. Love him to death. :)

What I'm trying to say is that I do know dogs, I do know breeds that are bred to work. I never suggest re-homing a dog just because it's the easiest solution. I really do think that in this case the OP didn't know what she was getting into, and can't handle the breed she chose.

I'd love to discuss this with you further, and hope that you stick around. Maybe after you read a few thousand posts in the dog forum, you'll understand why we come off as curt, or harsh. I've been here 5 years, and I've seen it all. I have to say, sugar coating things went out the window around 4 years ago.

Stick around. Your knowledge about this breed is something we welcome. :)

[Alty]

I didn't know much about the breed when I got my first Pyreeness either. But with experience, seeking out advice and finding those with actual Pyrenees experience and wonderful people willing to help - we persevered and now I am helping others. I don't think re-homing is the automatic first answer if someone is looking and seeking for advice. And yes, Pyreenes are GREAT with children. Gentle giants. Often if a person has property, they can go on to be loving guard dogs for the home. Biting is a rare problem with Pyrenees and I am not surprised to read that once she started keeping the dog outside more, it stopped. It was probably very bored and needed a job.

I would love to hear an update from her.

I do agree that re-homing isn't the automatic first answer when someone has an issue with a dog. If you read the other posts in this forum, you'll see that 99% of the time re-homing isn't even suggested, at least not when the owner is having behavioural issues.

I will concede that I don't know anything about this breed. I know a lot about working dogs, as I mentioned in my previous post, but not this particular breed. Here's where I have a major issue. You said that you didn't know a lot about this breed when you bought one. But, you did your research. Granted, I would have rather you did your research before you bought the dog, but, in the end it worked out, you figured things out, found people that know about the breed, and you made it work. Now you offer advice to other people with this breed.

I will say that you got lucky, and please don't take my next statement as an admonishment, but, you should have done things the other way around. No one should buy a dog before they research the breed and know everything about it.

This OP not only doesn't know a thing about this breed, but she also doesn't know that buying a 5 week old puppy is not only illegal in most states, but also morally not right. No dog is ready to leave its mother at 5 weeks of age. The legal age is 8 weeks, 12 weeks is better. At 12 weeks this dog was already put outside because she couldn't handle its behaviour.

Are you seeing where I'm coming from now? Why I suggested re-homing? She doesn't know a thing about this breed. Do I? No. Does anyone on this site? Well, you do, but you weren't here when she asked. The thing is, as the owner, it's her job to research the breed.

I didn't go to school to learn what I learned about dogs. I learned because I put in the work. I adopted a beagle knowing full well what I was getting into. I did months of research before I even found a breeder. All of the dogs I've had were not bought on impulse. I knew what I was getting, and what I would have to do to make it work. The OP didn't, and still doesn't. That's why this dog is not for her.

Like I said, based on what she wrote in her post, what she expected from this dog, she shouldn't have gotten this breed, which would mean that the dog would be better off in a new home, and at it's age that would be the best option, before the OP makes it impossible to re-home the dog because she has no idea how to care for it properly, which includes training.

[Lucky098]

Indoor dog or outdoor dog.. that dog's behavior was unacceptable and instead of trying to fix the problem, they solved it by putting the dog outside.

I have met many guardian dogs.. and they were all very well behaved, not leashed trained, but accepting of restraint and handling. This dog; already acting like he is going to bite at 12 weeks, is going to be a nightmare when its older.. and it's the owner to blame.

That's great that you know how these dogs act and how they enjoy to live their lives.. but I still stand by saying.. indoor dog or outdoor dog, a dog that bites is a bad dog and these people need to work with the dog on it.. But they won't, because putting him outside magically cured him of his bad behavior.

[furryloo]

Thanks Alty. I appreciate that. I discourage re-homing a Pyr, especially if you have property and a farm. They are VERY easy to train once you know a few basics. The problem with rehoming is they usually get rehomed repeatedly and before you know it, they are a 90 pound puppy problem.

Often, lots of exercise, allowing them work at a young age, chew opportunities (raw marrow bones are great for GP) are easy ways to curb behavioral issues. I also believe in Bite Inhibition training and 12 weeks is a perfect age to start (sooner is better). If a Pyr is bored, indoors all day, has nothing sufficient to chew - they are going to mouth and bite. I believe biting is the SYMPTOM of something else usually and often you just have to find out what they need. I love the yelping and ignoring approach when teaching softer bite inhibition. Pyrs really need this training because they can actually chew through steel. So yes, they need to be taught a softer bite as soon as possible.

Usually when they are rehomed, they often become rescue dogs very quickly because they are quite literally an energetic 90 pound ball of energy. Lol. And we have found that people often rehomed them on advice of a trainer that was just overwhelmed and didn't understand the breed.

A working Pyr is a happy one. Give them lots of time to use this (can we say running the fence line for hours?), chew opportunities and bite inhibition training and you will have a GREAT dog on your hands. :). Also, you do need to be a leader with them just like any breed of dog really.

Also, it helps to know, they are "puppies" until 2 years old. 90-100 pound puppies at that!

[furryloo]

I feel like I am repeating myself now. Lol!

Really Pyrs are easy to train! And 12 weeks is not too late to teach them appropriate bite inhibition. I've done bite inhibition training with older dogs. It is very easy.

[Alty]

I feel like I am repeating myself now. Lol!

Really Pyrs are easy to train! And 12 weeks is not too late to teach them appropriate bite inhibition. I've done bite inhibition training with older dogs. It is very easy.

I agree, it's not too late to teach the dog. But that's the issue here, that's the very reason all of use told the OP to rehome the dog. She's not willing to train. She put the dog outside so she could avoid having to deal with the biting. She's not training, and despite may of us telling her that's what's needed, she refused. She wants to continue ignoring the problem, and the dog. The dog isn't being given any training at all, it's been pushed outside, fed, but that's it, no other interaction, no training, nothing. The OP can't handle this dog.

I agree with you 100% that this dog needs training and is young enough to do well with training. But the OP wouldn't accept that advice, she wanted an easy fix, a 1 minute training tip that would cure this dog of everything that's going on. We all know that's not possible.

She's not willing to put in the time or effort, which is why I suggested re-homing the dog to someone that is willing to train it.

[furryloo]

Just saying: research and first-hand experience are two different things. I actually did research the breed obsessively for almost a year before we got our first Pyr. Saw them in person, etc. Still wasn't prepared for the experience though! Lol.

I agree, 5 weeks is too young. No arguing that. I do know of people that take puppies that young for rescue reasons. Not always by choice. That's why researching "the five critical stages" is important if this happens.

Just trying to keep the tone of this thread helpful for other Pyr owners and hoping they learn something. I'm really not interested in being right or argue with anyone by any means. Would like to hear an update on this Pyr puppy as well.