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veronica66 · Aug 16, 2012, 07:57 PM

Your suggestion of the distributor makes more sense to me than the fuel pump... right now I can't hear anything, and my friend said he.can.help me tomorrow. If I go out and try this tomorrow can you still help me?

And

veronica66 · Aug 16, 2012, 07:59 PM

And how hard is the ICM to replace and how sure can you be sure that it is the ICM?

veronica66 · Aug 16, 2012, 08:03 PM

I did roll down the window and I still didn't hear anything
.. what should I be listening for?

TxGreaseMonkey · Aug 16, 2012, 08:18 PM

If you can't hear the fuel pump run, you need to start with the basics:

. Test all under hood and under dash fuses with a test light or multimeter.

. Clean the main ECM ground on the thermostat housing, using abrasive cloth or sandpaper.

. Perform the K-Test on the ECM.

. Check for codes, via the Service Check Connector.

I can still help you tomorrow.

veronica66 · Aug 16, 2012, 08:35 PM

Thank you very much! You have been very helpful to me and I think you may have saved me a boatload of money.

I will post tomorrow when I check these things out.

Thanks again!

TxGreaseMonkey · Aug 18, 2012, 11:35 AM

What have you found out?

veronica66 · Aug 19, 2012, 10:59 AM

I am on call this weekend with my work... so I am wasn't able to do anything... but I will go work on it tomorrow... I will post you when I find out anything... I printed out everything that you suggested and I will be trying everything... thank you so much for helping me.. I will let you know what I find out...

Thanks again!

veronica66 · Aug 21, 2012, 01:37 PM

OK, here's the update...
My friend and I went out and was working on the car, going down the list of to-do's that you suggested... and then he asked me to start it up, and I did,and it started right up... I was shocked! I drove it around for a bit and it conked out a few times and the oil light flickered. So I checked it out and the oil is not short, it is where it is supposed to be, so he said there may be water in my gas, so I put a bottle of anti-freeze for fuel and a bottle of octane booster... it seems to be running a bit better, but my friend said he doesn't think it is the fuel pump...

What do you think??

TxGreaseMonkey · Aug 21, 2012, 04:16 PM

1. Did you clean the main ECM ground?

2. Does the CEL consistently come on for 2 seconds and then go out, when the ignition switch is turned to ON (Position II)?

3. What voltage did you read, when you performed the K-Test?

Adding those items to your gas usually doesn't make a difference. Since the car runs for a little while and cuts out, I sense the Ignition Control Module (ICM) and coil, located inside the distributor, need replacing. These problematic components should be replaced every 120,000 miles or 10 years, whichever comes first. When you replace the ICM, be sure to apply silicone heat transfer compound to the back of the new ICM; otherwise, it won't last long.

veronica66 · Aug 21, 2012, 06:00 PM

We had a hard time getting the ECM plug undone.. so we couldn't get to that...

The CEL has always been on, it never has gone out...

I can't get the plug under the dash undone to do the KTest...

And I am guessing since the car has over 275,000 miles on it, the ICM and coil has never been replaced... should I do the aboves tests still or just change those parts? And where do I get the silicone heat transfer compond?

Thanks for your help!

TxGreaseMonkey · Aug 21, 2012, 06:13 PM

Just replace the ICM and coil. The silicone grease is usually included with the new ICM.

Did you clean the main ECM ground?

TxGreaseMonkey · Aug 21, 2012, 06:17 PM

Ignition Control Module (ICM or Igniter) and Coil Replacement

Bench testing ICMs and coils is virtually useless. It does not come close to simulating the extreme heat that often causes these components to fail. I recommend replacing these critical and problematic components every 120,000 miles or 10 years, whichever comes first.

1. Disconnect negative battery cable, recording any radio codes first.

2. Remove hex-head machine screws (3), securing distributor cap to housing, using an 8mm nut driver.

3. Move distributor cap and wires off to the side.

4. Remove machine screw securing rotor to shaft, using a precision #2 Phillips head screwdriver. A 1/4-inch drive magnetic bit holder (e.g. Wiha 52650) with a #2 Phillips head bit works really well. It may be necessary to "hit" the starter once or twice, in order to rotate rotor for access to mounting screw.

5. Remove rotor and leak cover.

6. Unfasten ICM wires, remove coil mounting screws (on distributors with a coil inside), and set coil aside. Trick: Removing the coil first, on distributors with a coil inside, improves access to the ICM.

7. Remove both screws securing heat sink to housing, using a precision #2 Phillips head screwdriver.

8. Remove heat sink from distributor and unfasten both screws mounting ICM to heat sink, using a precision #2 Phillips head screwdriver.

9. Clean connections with #240 abrasive cloth or steel wool.

10. Coat the back of the new ICM (or old ICM, if reusing) with a thin, even coat of silicone heat transfer compound. This special silicone grease increases heat transfer to the heat sink. Failure to apply silicone heat transfer compound will cause the ICM to quickly fail. Arctic Silver 5 is recommended by an AMHD member, which is available at Radio Shack.

If the ICM and the heat sink are simply placed together, the small air gaps (insulator) that naturally exist between them will inhibit heat transfer. By filling these gaps, the compound allows a direct path through which heat can travel. Failure to apply this grease is one reason why some Hondas suddenly die. Attention to detail makes a big difference with modern day electronics.

11. Mount ICM to heat sink and reinstall ICM, ICM terminal wires, coil, coil wires, leak cover, rotor, and distributor cap. Ensure female ICM connectors fit snugly--crimp with pliers, if necessary.

Conceptually, the ICM is a large output transistor (switch) controlling current through the primary coil. ICMs replace points and condenser in older vehicles. In the primary coil, current builds to 5 to 12 amps, generating lots of heat (due to inductance). Then, the ECM controls when the ICM "switches off" current to the primary coil, causing amperage to go to zero. When this happens, 12 to 14 volts in the primary coil is "stepped-up" to 30,000 volts in the secondary coil. This process creates a "type" of alternating current required for the coil (step-up transformer) to work. In a properly working ICM, timing is precisely when needed to fire each spark plug.

Bottom Line: ICMs and coils take a beating.

TxGreaseMonkey · Aug 21, 2012, 06:29 PM

After you replace the ICM and coil, disconnect the negative battery cable for 10 seconds. This should clear any old codes from the ECM. Now, see if the Check Engine Light comes on for 2 seconds and then goes out, when the ignition switch is turned to ON (Position II).

veronica66 · Aug 23, 2012, 03:58 PM

Can you please tell me how to clean the ECM ground? I can't disconnect to to clean it and what do I clean it with??

The ICM and the coil will be in tomorrow at noon, so I can install them then... but should I clean the ECM first before I install the parts??

Thanks!

TxGreaseMonkey · Aug 23, 2012, 04:32 PM

It's a good idea. Remove the 10mm bolt and use abrasive cloth or sandpaper to remove any corrosion from the connector.

veronica66 · Aug 23, 2012, 05:40 PM

Ok maybe I am looking in the wrong spot because I don't see a bolt... it is a plastic box that looks like it unsnaps...

Do u think cleaning the ECM will fix the problem instead of replacing the parts?

TxGreaseMonkey · Aug 23, 2012, 05:49 PM

Forget, then, about cleaning the main ECM ground. I believe replacing the ICM and coil is what's really important, now, to get it to reliably start and stay running. Afterwards, be sure to disconnect the negative battery cable for 10 seconds, to clear all old codes stored in the ECM.

Better, yet, you really should disconnect the negative battery cable, prior to replacing the ICM and coil. This will prevent an accident, where you short something out.

Read my instructions carefully on how to replace the ICM and coil.

veronica66 · Aug 23, 2012, 06:04 PM

Great! We will be working on that tomorrow! I'llblet you know!
Thanks for all you help!

veronica66 · Aug 24, 2012, 12:53 PM

I've ran into two problems...

I can't get the bolts off the harness to get the coil out... is there are trick to that?

I can't get the rotor off the shaft under the distributor cap to replace the ICM... is there a trick to that? I broke the plastic harness that is underneath the rotor, but I am sure I can glue that back together...

Please help...

Thanks!

TxGreaseMonkey · Aug 24, 2012, 01:31 PM

The only "trick" is to use a quality #2 Phillips Head Screwdriver. Use a lot of pressure on the screwdriver, if necessary, so you don't bugger up the heads.

To get access to the screw securing the rotor, you may need to have a friend hit the starter once or twice. This will rotate it so you can use your #2 Phillip Head Screwdriver and remove the screw. NO GLUING ALLOWED! If necessary, get a mechanic, or mechanically inclined friend, to help.

I often completely remove the distributor and place it on my workbench, to replace the ICM and coil.