[marey]

Hello

My daughter, now in her mid 20's, was sexually abused by a family friend when she was very young, and she and her brother used to stay with them and play with their children.



I have given my daughter all the love and support I can.

My trouble is that the wife of this man knew of the abuse, so my daughter's faith in females and males was eroded at the time when this abuse happened. Mainly, her faith in her mother, for not protecting her.

She has actively and vocally expressed her hatred toward me from a very young age, when she used to write 'i hate you' a hundred times and glaringly present the piece of paper to me. That was before we found out why she was sick (very ill physically and somewhat mentally... sleep disorders etc).

Now she is in her mid 20's and she loves me and hates me still.

It has been very hard for me to advise her or help her at all because of mistrust.

She has had some brief counselling that she sought herself, and had counselling in childhood but sadly the therapist was not competent and only served to make my daughter feel shame by telling her that this was her business, that she didn't have to tell her mother or anybody else anything about it . (this was at 10 years old, and my daughter later told me that that was when she stopped talking to me. she had been trusting enough before then to tell me of the abuse and had trust that i would believe her.) paradoxically, she has trusted me enough through the years to tell me intimate details about all kinds of things that happen in her life.. probably more than a mother should know, really.


I had the help of a counsellor for years to learn the best way to handle my daughter's behaviour for her sake and for the sake of the rest of our family because my daughter refused counselling. My girl seemed to loose her centre with this abuse, and her ability to tell right from wrong. She hated herself and so hated the world and everyone in it.

It got better over the last few years, and she was able to complete her education and get a job. This was due to a determined effort from her but also from me. But work only lasted 8 months before she dropped her bundle again and fell out of control, and then into a comfortable disability. She has become a victim, and seems comfortable there.

My problem now is that she seems to go in cycles that build in anger and accompanying behaviors - lying, attention seeking by negative behaviour, manipulating, fighting physically, purposefully hurting people with her words, feigning illnesses and accusing people (who have tried to help for many years) of doing things to hurt her. She calls me over and over about her problems, and about illnesses she has - she has no diagnosis, treatment or prognosis but they are serious illnesses she talks about. what she wants from me is sympathy. She tells me outright.
Her need of my continual sympathy now.. I am tired. I also don't think it's good for her to be treated as if she is a victim. I have always been told by counsellors to keep to my expectations, no matter what the circumstances... honesty, working for a living etc

She feels alone, I know. When she was a teenager she used to talk about 'trying on different personalities' when changing her clothes over and over, before we would go to family gatherings... it broke my heart. She has cheated, manipulated, been vindictive, lied and stolen from her family along the way, and I know she hates that too. She often seems to lack a conscience, but on the other hand, at times I have seen her sob uncontrollably about what she does. Then it goes away and she turns to using people to get what she wants in life(emotionally or materially), regardless of the people or their feelings.



When I don't give her the sympathy she craves, but ask questions or give suggestions that she might use to help the situation, my daughter becomes very abusive.

She basically has no faith in my judgement and no trust in me because she has never been able to feel that trust and has never had faith in anybody. And she only wants me to be what she has in her head as 'an ideal mother'... and that mother gives sympathy regardless of the situation if her daughter calls 'needing' it. She is jealous of her brothers' and even of her cousins' relationship with her mother.

This is a love/ hate relationship she has with an idealised form of me that she holds in her mind. She gets angry when I am not that person.

I just don't know what to do. I am tired of being abused and find myself at the stage where I text her and write to her with news and light conversation, but don't answer her calls or or call her at the moment, because I know I will 'say the wrong thing' and the result will be yelling and accusations.

She won't seek help until she decides herself that she needs it.

Help! Confused.

[bellatwo]

I would like to assist you, keep in mind I am not a professional therapist, which is, in my opinion, what you need for various reasons, which I will explain in a moment. You write, "she has become a victim, and seems comfortable there... she only wants me to be what she has in her head as 'an ideal mother'... and that mother gives sympathy regardless of the situation if her daughter calls 'needing' it... she has with an idealised form of me that she holds in her mind she gets angry when i am not that person.
It has been very hard for me to advise her or help her at all because of mistrust... i just don't know what to do i am tired of being abused."

I count myself a quasi-expert in this area, as would anyone who endured a single incident and/or repeated sexual abuse as your daughter and I. Your daughter is not comfortable being a victim of a sexual assault. Any abuse you think/write you are going through right now, does not compare to what your daughter went through and obviously, although perhaps, subconsciously continues to go through every moment of her present day life. Contrary to you calling it "sympathy," your daughter has made it very clear to you, when she contacts you, she wants you to simply listen, provide loving support, not lectures and advice. You have actually written that you ignore her request/needs and lecture, give her advice anyway. Sexual assault victim or not, anyone would become angry with you when they make their needs known, voice a request and it is ignored. Your daughter was already devalued, and you devalue her by not providing her what she needs from you - finding security, which is one of the many things taken from her in her youth.

I suggest you find a therapist that treats sexual abuse victims, rape victims and ask him or her to assist you in understanding/helping you help your daughter. Most have support groups, as this is very helpful in recovery. Therefore, I suggest that you ask the therapist to ask the group members if you can sit in on a group session and I suggest you keep quiet. Listen to what these men and woman are going through, and gain understanding, empathy, sympathy, etc. You will never be able to say again, it is you the abused in the circumstances of your daughters assault, you will never say again your daughter is comfortable being the victim.

[marey]

thank you for your advice, bellatwo. i perhaps have not explained myself properly. i will try to explain better. (your words are coloured blue here in this post.)
i don't mean my daughter is comfortable being a victim of sexual assault. my god!

i have had a therapist, as i said, helping me to try to do the best i can, and have followed her advice for years.... because my daughter has refused to accept help in that way. we have suggested to her group meetings, etc and if it would help her and she wanted me to, i would be there as well.

of course, it depends on your first brush with psych professionals (which i said was not good for her... made her feel ashamed right from the beginning), and she did have a psychiatrist, psychologist, doctor and occupational therapist for awhile working as a team. i used to take her to lunch or shopping or something special to make these visits a little less harrowing, but she just found it too painful to continue. however, they did help her to go back and finish school. thank heavens for that, or she would be having an even harder time today.

she has had some anger management couselling, some drug counselling, but many victims of sexual assault are simply unable to bear the pain of confronting what happened to them until they are way older than what my daughter is now. this is common. she knows what help is available and she will know when she can handle it.

not all mothers are bad and unfeeling! you said i am depriving her of security that she was deprived of in her youth. my daughter was abused at 4 years old. it was oral abuse and so not physically evident. her faith in her mother and women (and men? and the world?) was destroyed then. i am talking of a 5 year old who hated and didn't understand why. the abuse happened a couple of times. she became so physically ill that she stopped growing, her teeth all got loose, among other things, and nobody knew what was wrong with her. she told me about the abuse when she was about 9, when her friend told us about her stepfather's abuse that her mother didn't believe. i told my kids i would never doubt them and to always trust in my support, and she told me what had happened.

i don't mean that my daughter calls me wanting sympathy because of the abuse she suffered.

i feel the pain of my daughter acutely. every mother would recognise that as true. she has suffered for so long.
if you can imagine having a beautiful blonde little girl so terribly violated, and having her childhood turned into a nightmare. . and seeing the terrible pain she suffered while she should have been experiencing the wonder of growing into a young woman.... watching her and her sister and brothers have their lives so horribly affected by the act of just one man. my daughter was violent and so unhappy while they were children. when she was a teenager she killed the kitten that belonged to a girl (who had cheated with my daughter's boyfriend) and hung it on her doorknob with a ribbon.

what i am talking about regarding sympathy, are situations that are harming my daughter now... causing her more and more pain... causing her to loose people she cares deeply about, causing her to get into trouble with the law, causing her to work really hard to succeed and then hurt herself by doing things that ruin all her hard work just when she looks like it's all going to be great... just when she is starting to feel like she 'belongs' in the world around her.

as a mother i can not simply tell her that it is ok to give up, i have to try to give her some advice to try to help her enter society again. she is talented and clever and deserves far more than just having her hand held and saying it's ok ... she uses me as a barometer, although she abuses me... she invariably follows through on advice i give.
it is because of the expectations and continual love and support of her family expecting that she can, having confidence that she can that she has move on from a drug habit that lasted many years. she has had almost no experience functioning in a world where people work to support themselves. she has lived on welfare, her family, from selling drugs. so she has lived in a different society. she falls back into being a victim when she blows it- work, relationships... she gives up - each time: she goes back to drugs and invents illnesses...

this is very hard to explain. it is because i care for her so much that i can't just tell her 'oh you poor girl' and have no expectations of recovery. she has recently lost her big sister because she treats her the same way... we are human.... and are really abused if we respond in the 'wrong' way.
she has also lost other people, important to her, over the last year or so. it has been a very long road for for us who have been trying to be there and provide support. this is one of the things i fear now, that because she is getting older, that people are going to give up on her, which is happening, or that she will give up on herself. or that she will die of a drug overdose or end up in jail or locked in a psych ward.

i can not be dishonest with my daughter. i do give her sympathy and support... but not if it will support her (make her feel it's ok) to act in ways that are hurting her now.... such as hitting other people, abusing authorities etc. or doing things that are going to pyhsically harm her...

it is the honesty (not cruetly, not rudeness or being unfeeling... expressed in the most kind and tactful way i can) ... that has given her some kind of path to follow to the recovery she has made so far. our family continually encourages my daughter, and we do heaps of lovely things for her to make her feel special... we always have.... and she for us.

what i said is she has a love-hate relationship with me. and the things she values in me, although she still abuses me, are my honesty and my care for her.
you say you have experience with sexual abuse... i am very sorry for anyone who has. but i wonder if you know much about what it does to the very core.... the inate emotional and psychological nature of a child if one of her first experiences with mothers is where the woman simply ignored the fact that her husband did such terrible things to a child... my girl lost who she was... born as.. her identitiy.. and all trust in people including me. thus the mistrust! this is what my daughter and i have been trying to overcome all these years...

i can not tell her its ok to do things that are not ok. i can not 'take her side' and tell her that its ok to do things that are hurting her. i can tell her i understand how these things happen and give her support and advice about how to make things better, but i care about her too much to just dole out sympathy. if i had 'just listened' as you advised in your post, then my child would be dead by now. she is educated, alive, and has some work experience, and a start in society if she can keep going. the more she achieves, the better she gets.

and yes, i am a victim of rape. i do know. but i don't think all sexual abuse is created equal. this is a horrific situation. what i am saying is that i am tired of being abused. i'm tired of trying to be and say what is best, and still getting abused. as i said, this is a love-hate relationship... my daughter abuses me because i don't simply give sympathy, but follows my advice...
and i can't be her ideal mum which is one who just gives sympathy. if parents did that, they would sympathise with their children whether they were good or bad, causing them awful problems in the future. (when society, colleagues, partners and friends expect certain 'norms' of behaviour from them). (eg. look at narcissistic personality disorder).

if all parents acted if it was ok for their children to be abusive because ... 

anyone would become angry with you when they make their needs known, voice a request and it is ignored as you said,
then i guess then the parents would be giving the message that verbal abuse is ok. it's not. and not all needs can be met... it is not something you abuse someone about.

if requests are 'ignored', it's also ok to get angry and abusive? no. it's not that simple. parents have to weigh up whether or not it is the 'right thing to do for the child'. it would be a sad world if everyone felt entitled to become angry because their requests were not met.

we can't accept that from our children. my daughter is heading for 30 years old, and maturity is about having respect for each other's feelings and needs, it's not just about what one person needs. people do have their own things going on in life too, and are not always able to give what is requested or needed.


i can't turn my emotions off as well as i used to. i am tired. what i want is an answer to this question... how do i let my child know that i can not handle being verbally abused any more?

I suggest you find a therapist that treats sexual abuse victims, rape victims and ask him or her to assist you in understanding/helping you help your daughter. i had written that i have sought conselling.... and taken advice.... for years.

it is presumptious to say to a mum of an abused child that they feel nothing of their child's pain but only the abuse from the child.  all mums would agree, i think. 

[amazing]

Hi Marey,

I see that you have already had a good response already to your question and I am qualified in psychology to give you further help and assistance.

How awful it must be for you to be going through what you are and how brave of you to come and seek advice on this forum that is not guaranteed to give you the appropriate advice you are looking for.

Your daughter has already made the correlation between her current mixed feelings towards you and related that right back to her therapy sessions as a child, so she is at least aware of where the root cause and source of some of her feelings come from. I would also like to stress that most girls have a complex relationship with their parents asides from any traumatic event (teenagers and adolescence is a tough time) and although your daughter is 25, she is stuck at where the anger wasn't allowed to be expressed at the time the abuse came to light. Her emotional maturity has been blighted to some degree by what the abuse did to her and her anger towards you is something only she herself can admit and be prepared to deal with. You cannot do anything, not even tell her to go back to therapy if this is against her wishes, but you can tell her that you love and support her whatever she wants to decide.

I can see your frustration and anxiety about not being able to impact upon her life in the ways you would like to and as all mothers generally do with their daughters, but truthfully this isn't something your daughter can cooperate and meet the expected demands that she would also like to and more than likely feels guilty that she can't. Abuse trauma affects every victim differently and so your daughter's damage is individual to her and the way she expresses her sustained injury is going to be shaped by a number of factors. The loving warmth and protection you provide, is essential to her healing and even if she is not reciprocating that love altogether, it is important that you be there for her and give her all of the love and support you can - even in the face of rejection. She is naturally going to have a difficult time with accepting love that is unconditional when her abuse taught that love is conditional.

It is difficult to stand by and watch someone harm themselves and I am sure that your daughter isn't wanting to do anything to harm herself at all, but with abuse does come self harm too and is a normal part of the emotional release she is going through. It is her own way of letting go of the pain and anguish and suffering of what the abuse had done to her and isn't something she is doing to get angry with you about. I recommend a book to you by Liz Adamson called the ultimate guide to child abuse and healing - it is an affordable but highly up-to date and researched book on the impact of childhood abuse and how to heal from it. You could give this as a gift to your daughter and it will be something that she will appreciate in time to come if not now, but it is the only book out there that really helps victims and survivors to deal with what is happening to them. Therapy is something that only she herself can choose to have but sometimes it is necessary to seek out a few first before deciding on which one is going to be the best for her. Not all therapists are trained to deal with sexual abuse and those that are, should be up front about this from the start. It is sad that your daughter has so far had a negative experience with the therapists she had seen, but there are some very experienced ones around but they can be costly if they are not free or willing to accommodate low income status.

I am also a survivor of childhood abuse and I saw many different counselors over the years but the only thing that really worked for me in the end was finding a great book the one I have already mentioned and by training to become a psychologist myself. I had no support from my parents because they were the ones that abused me and so have done my healing all alone. This is why your daughter is very fortunate to have you even if that means that she has a difficult time trusting and relating to you, she knows that she has your support and why she is more than likely to get through her trauma successfully however tough that is going to be. Being patient isn't going to be easy for you, but rushing or forcing her before she is even ready to deal with her pain, is not going to do her any justice at all and she will feel re-victimized when self-autonomy and power had been taken away from her as a child. She never knew what choice was as a child because choice was something that her abusers took from her and why now, she struggles to feel in control much of the time and why the best thing you could do for her is to allow her the space and time she needs to heal however hard this is going to be for you. You are going to empower her by being there for her and by giving her material that will help her to understand her abuse and how to deal with it by giving her the book as a gift with a
Loving note inside of it, supporting her progress and letting her know that she is doing well.

It is the little things that count the most, but you can't heal or rescue your daughter, only she can do that because it is about being empowered. I am positive that your daughter really does know and appreciate all that you do do for her, but it is important to let her have self-autonomy and the freedom to choose what is the right for her even if that is
Going to be destructive, because for her, if love is unconditional, then it also means having a choice. To feel empowered yourself, means to give her help and support through being there for her as you are now and to give her practical support and guidance and material that will help your daughter to make sense of what the abuse has done to her and how the effects of abuse are not permanent (give the Liz Adamson book as a gift) - she is to date, the only qualified psychologist that gives advice on how to practically heal from abuse scars and understand them. Your daughter will appreciate the gift I can guarantee you and will have vital access to healing that very few psychologists can help survivors of childhood abuse.

This is the best advice that I can give to you and I have helped many many people through childhood abuse issues. I wish you so much luck and I think that you are doing a fantastic job with your daughter, but following through my advice will help you both to build a more positive relationship with one another in time to come. Allowing her the freedom and space to heal now is also important.

[bellatwo]

Thank you for taking the time to express your concerns in reference to my post. I don't feel it would be constructive, if I took a defensive posture explaining why I wrote what I did, strictly by quoting your own words from your Question. I will clarify what I feel is critical, please read my reply again, I surely did not say it is acceptable for our offspring to abuse us, as my reference was on "anger," which is an emotion, as long as it does not move beyond.

[marey]

I recommend a book to you by Liz Adamson called the ultimate guide to child abuse and healing -

Thank you, amazing.

I have searched for ages on the net and can't find that particular book, but have found others by the author. Do you know anybody who has a copy they would like to sell? Or does anybody else have one who is reading this post?

Any info would be appreciated. Have a search going on e-bay.

[amazing]

Hi Marey,

I used to have the Overcoming childhood sexual abuse the ultimate guide to healing but gave that copy to a survivors group some months ago now. You can however, get this book from NAPAC online (just type in NAPAC) on the computer. This is the National Association for protection against abuse in Childhood to which I am also a member. They sell books on line and they do have the Liz Adamson book on there (it has a bright yellow cover with two children) amongst many other titles, but this book is the most easiest to read and understand and is a practical guide to healing and explains how to and out of all of the books on recovering from childhood abuse, this is by far the best book that has helped me deal directly with childhood abuse. The other books are wonderful too but they don't give practical step by step information on how to successfully heal from abuse and is the most up to date one of all.

It costs £7.99 here in the UK so in US dollars I assume that would be around $18? It is well worth the money and I have many books on healing from abuse but none of them compare to this one at all.

Below is the link I manged to copy for you that will take you directly to the site. If there is anything else you need help and or advice on please write back.

NAPAC - Booklist - Self Help
This can be done by individuals or within a group context. Liz Adamson is a leading UK life coach and self help author.. .
NAPAC - Booklist - Self Help - 16k

[robertsqueen]

Hello Marey,
I am not a therapist or even a psychology major, but I myself was sexually abused at a young age, so maybe I can give a little ensight into what is going on with your daughter.
My brother sexually abused me from the time that I was 2 until I was six. It was a very scary experence that I went through. When my family found out they woudn't accept that it had happened, expecailly my mother. I don't have the best relationship with my mother, because I feel that she should have been there (but how could she when she had no idea?) I realize that now, but then I did not. I went to dozens of counselors that told me that I did something to turn him on. I lived in shame all through my teenage years. I wasn't interested in sex, because I was scared of it.
I understand where your daughter is coming from in terms of feeling scared and playing a victim... I did also. I would act out, do attention grabbing things to try to gain the trust back from my family.. becuase I felt like the whole thing was my fault. I also was very very angry with my mother...
It took me realizing through myself that it wasn't my fault and that bad stuff happens to people sometimes,and it only makes us stronger.
I had a good talk with my step-mom who was the only one that believed and accepted the sexual abuse,. and she said that she too saw a therapist and that the therapist told her to set boundaries. I asked her why that was and she said because my boundaries have been violated, then I violated other people boundaries. I didn't understand the concept of boundaries and that sounds like your daughter in the fact that she blames you and hurts you. I am so sorry that your daughter had to experence that type of pain... but you sound like a very loving, and caring mother and that's what she needs. You also need to make sure that you put yourself first... she is hurt and wounded, and needs someone strong.
I am sorry about telling you about my story,but I thought maybe if I told you what being a victim feels like then maybe it could help...
If you have any questions or just need to talk then I am here... Good luck hun.

[marey]

Below is the link I manged to copy for you that will take you directly to the site. If there is anything else you need help and or advice on please write back.

NAPAC - Booklist - Self Help
This can be done by individuals or within a group context. Liz Adamson is a leading UK life coach and self help author. ...
NAPAC - Booklist - Self Help - 16k

:) from marey

[marey]

Hello Marey,
I am not a therapist or even a psychology major, but I myself was sexually abused at a young age, so maybe I can give a little ensight into what is going on with your daughter.
My brother sexually abused me from the time that I was 2 until I was six. It was a very scary experence that I went through. When my family found out they woudn't accept that it had happened, expecailly my mother. I don't have the best relationship with my mother, because I feel that she should have been there (but how could she when she had no idea?) I realize that now, but then I did not. I went to dozens of counselors that told me that I did something to turn him on. I lived in shame all through my teenage years. I wasn't interested in sex, because I was scared of it.
I understand where your daughter is coming from in terms of feeling scared and playing a victim....I did also. I would act out, do attention grabbing things to try to gain the trust back from my family..becuase I felt like the whole thing was my fault. I also was very very angry with my mother....
It took me realizing through myself that it wasn't my fault and that bad stuff happens to people sometimes,and it only makes us stronger.
I had a good talk with my step-mom who was the only one that believed and accepted the sexual abuse,...and she said that she too saw a therapist and that the therapist told her to set boundaries. I asked her why that was and she said becuase my boundaries have been violated, then I violated other people boundaries. I didn't understand the concept of boundaries and that sounds like your daughter in the fact that she blames you and hurts you. I am so sorry that your daughter had to experence that type of pain...but you sound like a very loving, and caring mother and thats what she needs. You also need to make sure that you put yourself first...she is hurt and wounded, and needs someone strong.
I am sorry about telling you about my story,but I thought maybe if I told you what being a victim feels like then maybe it could help....
If you have any questions or just need to talk then I am here.....Good luck hun.

Hi robertsqueen
Thank you for your very honest response. One thing that has not ever occurred to me is being scared... horror, yes, but fear, no... I appreciate the insight very much. The more you understand, the easier it is do the right thing to make things better, and to cope yourself.

Cheers, jane

[marey]

Hello Marey,
I am not a therapist or even a psychology major, but I myself was sexually abused at a young age, so maybe I can give a little ensight into what is going on with your daughter.
My brother sexually abused me from the time that I was 2 until I was six. It was a very scary experence that I went through. When my family found out they woudn't accept that it had happened, expecailly my mother. I don't have the best relationship with my mother, because I feel that she should have been there (but how could she when she had no idea?) I realize that now, but then I did not. I went to dozens of counselors that told me that I did something to turn him on. I lived in shame all through my teenage years. I wasn't interested in sex, because I was scared of it.
I understand where your daughter is coming from in terms of feeling scared and playing a victim....I did also. I would act out, do attention grabbing things to try to gain the trust back from my family..becuase I felt like the whole thing was my fault. I also was very very angry with my mother....
It took me realizing through myself that it wasn't my fault and that bad stuff happens to people sometimes,and it only makes us stronger.
I had a good talk with my step-mom who was the only one that believed and accepted the sexual abuse,...and she said that she too saw a therapist and that the therapist told her to set boundaries. I asked her why that was and she said becuase my boundaries have been violated, then I violated other people boundaries. I didn't understand the concept of boundaries and that sounds like your daughter in the fact that she blames you and hurts you. I am so sorry that your daughter had to experence that type of pain...but you sound like a very loving, and caring mother and thats what she needs. You also need to make sure that you put yourself first...she is hurt and wounded, and needs someone strong.
I am sorry about telling you about my story,but I thought maybe if I told you what being a victim feels like then maybe it could help....
If you have any questions or just need to talk then I am here.....Good luck hun.

Hi robertsqueen
Thank you for your very honest response. One thing that has not ever occurred to me is being scared... horror, yes, but fear, no... I appreciate the insight very much. The more you understand, the easier it is do the right thing to make things better, and to cope yourself.

Cheers, marey

[robertsqueen]

Your welcome... I am glad that I was able to help...