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sst290 · Jul 21, 2012, 09:18 AM

My father had a reverse mortgage and died.. I inherited the house and put the deed in my name.. The mortgage has never been recorded and the title service, 5 years ago, said they lost the paperwork.. Can I keep or sell the house free and clear ?

ScottGem · Jul 21, 2012, 09:43 AM

If you are aware of a reverse mortgage and didn't contact the lender upon the death of your father and, transferred the deed to your name, you could be prosecuted for fraud and/or theft.

Fr_Chuck · Jul 21, 2012, 10:13 AM

Can you yes, can you be arrrested and charged with fraud, yes, In fact you can be changed now, since you did not have legal right to transfer it into your name, ( transfer of ownership is considered a sell)

You need to locate and talk to the lender. Is the lender aware this person has died, they are suppose to be notified.

sst290 · Jul 21, 2012, 10:53 AM

Everything was done proper.. house was willed properly to me and lender was contacted.. attorney advised to transfer title to my name.. however.. there's no recorded mortgage and no mistake on my end.. the title company lost the paperwork and admiited it to me.. the mortgage company at this point I think is clueless.. Am I to do their work for them ?

AK lawyer · Jul 21, 2012, 11:06 AM

Well then, back to the original question:

Originally Posted by sst290

... Can I keep or sell the house free and clear ?

From what you say, the lenders have given up any interest they may have had in the property.

So, yes.

ScottGem · Jul 21, 2012, 11:18 AM

Originally Posted by sst290

everthing was done proper..house was willed properly to me and lender was contacted..

Right there you are wrong. As soon as the reverse mortgage was obtained, the property was no longer your father's to bequeath. Therefore, the will was not valid. So the house could NOT have been properly willed to you.

However, if the lender who issued the reverse mortgage was informed of the death and did nothing to claim their interest, then you can, at least, evade criminal prosecution. If the lender ever finds the paperwork, they may be able to reclaim the property.

And if you sell the property without disclosing this issue, fraud could come back into play.

Lets face facts here. Your father sold the property to a lender in return for income. The lender may have screwed the pooch, but your taking advantage of that is unethical, if not illegal

sst290 · Jul 21, 2012, 11:34 AM

I am still in the 1 year grace period and weighing my options.. Lawyer advised to sell and walk away.. FYI.. the mortgage co back in the day advised my father to put me on the deed with him as a life estate.. they never recorded that either.. I'm told to make them produce the original document.. I can't get a mortgage to pay it off because no mortgage is recorded..

sst290 · Jul 21, 2012, 11:39 AM

I'm told a liz pendens will be rejected because there's no record. Do I wait for an attempt at foreclosure or tip my hand to the mortgage co ? I have good credit and am not looking for entanglements but shouldn't they prove their claim ?

sst290 · Jul 21, 2012, 11:58 AM

The law is not always ethical.. unfortunately.Tender notions aside, I need my Legal position on the matter..

Fr_Chuck · Jul 21, 2012, 12:19 PM

I may consult a second attorney personally.

But your attorney should get a signed release from the lender.

ScottGem · Jul 21, 2012, 02:57 PM

Laws may not be fair, but it isn't the law that is not ethical but the application of the law.

A reverse mortgage is a gamble just like life insurance. The lender gambles that the home owner will die before they pay the value of the house. The home owner gambles they will outlive the value. So the home owner sells the property to the lender retaining the right to live on the property. But that means the (now) former home owner no longer owns the property and can't bequeath it.

So for anyone to withhold that property from the lender who now owns it, would be illegal. But to sell that property with such a cloud on its title would be fraud.

AK lawyer · Jul 21, 2012, 03:07 PM

Originally Posted by ScottGem

...
So for anyone to withhold that property from the lender who now owns it, would be illegal. But to sell that property with such a cloud on its title would be fraud.

As I read this thread, the only person who thinks there is a reverse mortgage is OP. Otherwise there is no evidence of it. Am I missing something here?

AK lawyer · Jul 21, 2012, 03:10 PM

Originally Posted by sst290

I'm told a liz pendens will be rejected because theres no record. ...

You are asking if you should file a lis pendens? What for? Are you planning on suing someone?

ScottGem · Jul 21, 2012, 03:12 PM

Originally Posted by AK lawyer

As I read this thread, the only person who thinks there is a reverse mortgage is OP. Otherwise there is no evidence of it. Am I missing something here?

Not sure if that is the case, but certainly if the reverse mortgage can't be documented, it does not legally exist. My fear would be that, at some point in the near future, the lender finds that documentation.

sst290 · Jul 21, 2012, 04:40 PM

When the lender tries to file a lis pendens to start the foreclosure they will be refused by the county because its never been recorded in 5 years and supposedly, according to the title company was lost.. They even asked me back in the day to contact the lawyer for the mortgage co and have everyone sign again..

Fr_Chuck · Jul 21, 2012, 04:57 PM

I am glad you are sure it will be refused, since they have to accept and file when presented to them, the judge then if you file against it, will determine if it is valid or not.

ScottGem · Jul 21, 2012, 05:08 PM

Originally Posted by sst290

When the lender tries to file a lis pendens to start the foreclosure they will be refused by the county because its never been recorded in 5 years and supposedly, according to the title company was lost..

And who told you that particular piece of BS? Do you understand what a lis pendens is? It is simply a notice to the Recorder of deeds that there is pending litigation against the property. The county CANNOT refuse it because it is issued by a court and is just a notice.

The county has no right to refuse anything as long as a court issues an order. So this will be fought out in a court if and when the mortgage company finds the paperwork. And if the mortgage company can prove that you were aware of the reverse mortgage and tried to bypass it, you could be prosecuted for criminal charges.

Originally Posted by sst290

They even asked me back in the day to contact the lawyer for the mortgage co and have everyone sign again..

Who is they? And why didn't you do this?

sst290 · Jul 21, 2012, 06:33 PM

The title company.. they admitted losing it and said they could get in a lot of trouble.. we weren't going to do their work for them.. We acted in good faith by initially calling the mortgage co and they told us to call the tiltle co who after repeated calls admitted the loss.. They also got paid for their inaction... BTW... as far the lis pendens.. I've heard it will require the mortgage be looked up.. not finding it the county will be unable to process a foreclosure lis pendens but a recorded lis pendens will be filed?. admittedly.. I don't know this as a fact.. We contacted the mortgage co and have been acting within our rights during the grace period. They may very well find it.I don't believe there even aware of our perceived problem. Bottom line.. if they can't produce it ? What then ?

ScottGem · Jul 21, 2012, 06:54 PM

No, the lis pendens is a notice that there is litigation involving the property. That's all it is. Yes, for a suit to be won, the plaintiff is going to have to show paperwork. So its possible the suit will fail. Its also possible a suit will never be filed since the paperwork can't be found.

Unfortunately, this puts you in a state of limbo. You can't sell the property for fear that you don't own it. I guess you can sue the title company to provide clear title. I really don't know at this point.

sst290 · Jul 21, 2012, 07:33 PM

Thanks.. thats how we feel.. limbo.. we don't want to tip our hand, if we have one. If we try for a conventional mortgage and say its to pay a reverse back.. it won't be found.. lawyer says "make them prove their case".. or sell and walk away. We were definitively told by the title co that they lost it.. Why the mortgage co didn't sound alarm.. dont know, and we won't ring the bell for them... We feel we did our part notifying them of the death... thanks for the responses and adveserial stances. Hard decisions to make.