[permaspin]

About a week ago on my drive to work I felt a brief loss a power.. Maybe 1/4 of a second.. I continued to drive and with in 10 minutes the car was chugging and sputtering and very under powered and the engine light would come on. I continued my commute after adding injector cleaner to no avail. I purchased a new fuel filter and installed that but the problem continued. Yesterday I put a new distributor cap, rotor and spark plugs and wires in, but the problem continues. The car can drive normally for 30 minutes then all of a sudden I feel the chugging and loss of power kick in.. Sometimes so bad I need to pull to the side of the road and feather the throttle...

What's weird is when I have the problem the engine light will come on and if I shut the car off and turn it right back on the light goes away and the car drives fine.. Until the problem happens again...

When I start the car the engine light is never on until the problem occurs.. And when I turn the car off and start it again the light goes off and most often stays off until the problem happens again...

[TxGreaseMonkey]

I would replace the Ignition Control Module (ICM) and coil--heat is causing the ICM and/or coil to break down under load. Everything about your description screams poor ignition. This will likely solve your problem.

Ignition Control Module (ICM or Igniter) and Coil Replacement

Bench testing ICMs and coils is virtually useless. It does not come close to simulating the extreme heat that often causes these components to fail. I recommend replacing these critical and problematic components every 120,000 miles or 10 years, whichever comes first.


1. Disconnect negative battery cable, recording any radio codes first.

2. Remove hex-head machine screws (3), securing distributor cap to housing, using an 8mm nut driver.

3. Move distributor cap and wires off to the side.

4. Remove machine screw securing rotor to shaft, using a precision #2 Phillips head screwdriver. A 1/4-inch drive magnetic bit holder (e.g. Wiha 52650) with a #2 Phillips head bit works really well. It may be necessary to "hit" the starter once or twice, in order to rotate rotor for access to mounting screw.

5. Remove rotor and leak cover.

6. Unfasten ICM wires, remove coil mounting screws (on distributors with a coil inside), and set coil aside. Trick: Removing the coil first, on distributors with a coil inside, improves access to the ICM.

7. Remove both screws securing heat sink to housing, using a precision #2 Phillips head screwdriver.

8. Remove heat sink from distributor and unfasten both screws mounting ICM to heat sink, using a precision #2 Phillips head screwdriver.

9. Clean connections with #240 abrasive cloth or steel wool.

10. Coat the back of the new ICM (or old ICM, if reusing) with a thin, even coat of silicone heat transfer compound. This special silicone grease increases heat transfer to the heat sink. Failure to apply silicone heat transfer compound will cause the ICM to quickly fail. Arctic Silver 5 is recommended by an AMHD member, which is available at Radio Shack.

If the ICM and the heat sink are simply placed together, the small air gaps (insulator) that naturally exist between them will inhibit heat transfer. By filling these gaps, the compound allows a direct path through which heat can travel. Failure to apply this grease is one reason why some Hondas suddenly die. Attention to detail makes a big difference with modern day electronics.

11. Mount ICM to heat sink and reinstall ICM, ICM terminal wires, coil, coil wires, leak cover, rotor, and distributor cap. Ensure female ICM connectors fit snugly--crimp with pliers, if necessary.


Conceptually, the ICM is a large output transistor (switch) controlling current through the primary coil. ICMs replace points and condenser in older vehicles. In the primary coil, current builds to 5 to 12 amps, generating lots of heat (due to inductance). Then, the ECM controls when the ICM "switches off" current to the primary coil, causing amperage to go to zero. When this happens, 12 to 14 volts in the primary coil is "stepped-up" to 30,000 volts in the secondary coil. This process creates a "type" of alternating current required for the coil (step-up transformer) to work. In a properly working ICM, timing is precisely when needed to fire each spark plug.

Bottom Line: ICMs and coils take a beating.

Note: Distributor cap contacts can oxidize or corrode, creating high secondary resistance, which can result in rotor and ICM failure, reduced mileage, CEL coming on, catalytic converter failure, or failed emissions test. The secondary ignition system will destroy the ICM and coil, if you do not properly maintain the ignition system. This means replacing the distributor cap, rotor, and spark plug wires every 60,000 miles.

WARNING: Intermittent ICM failure can allow fuel to build-up in the exhaust system. Detonation can then blow the exhaust system off the vehicle.

[permaspin]

I would replace the Ignition Control Module (ICM) and coil--heat is causing the ICM and/or coil to break down under load. Everything about your description screams poor ignition. This will likely solve your problem.

Ignition Control Module (ICM or Igniter) and Coil Replacement

Bench testing ICMs and coils is virtually useless. It does not come close to simulating the extreme heat that often causes these components to fail. I recommend replacing these critical and problematic components every 120,000 miles or 10 years, whichever comes first.


1. Disconnect negative battery cable, recording any radio codes first.

2. Remove hex-head machine screws (3), securing distributor cap to housing, using an 8mm nut driver.

3. Move distributor cap and wires off to the side.

4. Remove machine screw securing rotor to shaft, using a precision #2 Phillips head screwdriver. A 1/4-inch drive magnetic bit holder (e.g., Wiha 52650) with a #2 Phillips head bit works really well. It may be necessary to "hit" the starter once or twice, in order to rotate rotor for access to mounting screw.

5. Remove rotor and leak cover.

6. Unfasten ICM wires, remove coil mounting screws (on distributors with a coil inside), and set coil aside. Trick: Removing the coil first, on distributors with a coil inside, improves access to the ICM.

7. Remove both screws securing heat sink to housing, using a precision #2 Phillips head screwdriver.

8. Remove heat sink from distributor and unfasten both screws mounting ICM to heat sink, using a precision #2 Phillips head screwdriver.

9. Clean connections with #240 abrasive cloth or steel wool.

10. Coat the back of the new ICM (or old ICM, if reusing) with a thin, even coat of silicone heat transfer compound. This special silicone grease increases heat transfer to the heat sink. Failure to apply silicone heat transfer compound will cause the ICM to quickly fail. Arctic Silver 5 is recommended by an AMHD member, which is available at Radio Shack.

If the ICM and the heat sink are simply placed together, the small air gaps (insulator) that naturally exist between them will inhibit heat transfer. By filling these gaps, the compound allows a direct path through which heat can travel. Failure to apply this grease is one reason why some Hondas suddenly die. Attention to detail makes a big difference with modern day electronics.

11. Mount ICM to heat sink and reinstall ICM, ICM terminal wires, coil, coil wires, leak cover, rotor, and distributor cap. Ensure female ICM connectors fit snugly--crimp with pliers, if necessary.


Conceptually, the ICM is a large output transistor (switch) controlling current through the primary coil. ICMs replace points and condenser in older vehicles. In the primary coil, current builds to 5 to 12 amps, generating lots of heat (due to inductance). Then, the ECM controls when the ICM "switches off" current to the primary coil, causing amperage to go to zero. When this happens, 12 to 14 volts in the primary coil is "stepped-up" to 30,000 volts in the secondary coil. This process creates a "type" of alternating current required for the coil (step-up transformer) to work. In a properly working ICM, timing is precisely when needed to fire each spark plug.

Bottom Line: ICMs and coils take a beating.

Note: Distributor cap contacts can oxidize or corrode, creating high secondary resistance, which can result in rotor and ICM failure, reduced mileage, CEL coming on, catalytic converter failure, or failed emissions test. The secondary ignition system will destroy the ICM and coil, if you do not properly maintain the ignition system. This means replacing the distributor cap, rotor, and spark plug wires every 60,000 miles.

WARNING: Intermittent ICM failure can allow fuel to build-up in the exhaust system. Detonation can then blow the exhaust system off the vehicle.

Afterwards, remove and fully charge the battery, which most auto parts stores will do for free.

The problem has happened seconds after cold starts right in the morning... And why does shutting the car off and starting it again right away seem to temporarily solve the problem?

[TxGreaseMonkey]

Heat is what starts to destroy the microchip inside the ICM; then, they start acting erratically. You ARE experiencing classic ICM intermittent failure, which will only get much worse.

Verify that the Check Engine Light consistently comes on for 2 seconds and then goes out, when the ignition switch is turned to ON (Position II). If it does, then only focus on the distributor. This is likely a simple problem that can be solved in 45 minutes.

[permaspin]

Heat is what starts to destroy the microchip inside the ICM; then, they start acting erratically. You ARE experiencing classic ICM intermittent failure, which will only get much worse.



Verify that the Check Engine Light consistently comes on for 2 seconds and then goes out, when the ignition switch is turned to ON (Position II).

Ok I will report back after I'm done work about the 2 seconds with the CEL

Thank you thus far

[permaspin]

If I replace the entire distriubtor with a new one, this will essentially do the same thing? Correct?

[TxGreaseMonkey]

Yes, but only buy a genuine Honda distributor.

It's cheaper to buy a genuine Honda distributor housing and install an aftermarket ICM and coil, to save money. At AMHD, we haven't had problems with aftermarket ICMs and coils. We have, however, had major problems with aftermarket complete distributors and distributor housings. I would try replacing just the ICM and coil first, especially since you just bought a new rotor and distributor cap.

[permaspin]

Ok, going to go buy them now, will report back tonight

[TxGreaseMonkey]

Great.

[permaspin]

I went to my parts store today and they informed me that there are 2 different OEM numbers for the ICM for that year.. So my update is going to be a day delayed. Tonight when I'm home in need to get at the old ICM and get the OEM numbers off it before purchasing the new one.

[TxGreaseMonkey]

Smart thing to do.

Make sure you have a quality Phillips Head #2 Screwdriver, such as those that come with the omnipresent bit drivers these days. If you booger the heads, it will be a bad day.

[TxGreaseMonkey]

If you have the 1.5L engine, the AutoZone Part No. is JA179, $49.99. In fact, it's the same if you have the 1.6L engine.

[permaspin]

Ok thanks, I have good screw drivers

[permaspin]

Just a quick update before I remove the ICM to confirm the OEM numbers on it. I sat in the car turned the key to the II position, the engine like comes on for 2 seconds, and during that time I hear the fuel pump run and the relay click.

[TxGreaseMonkey]

That confirms that the problem is with the distributor; therefore, full speed ahead with replacing the ICM and coil.

[permaspin]

I removed the coil without problem.. I'm now looking at the ICM.. Underneath the distributor housing there are 2 hex head bolts with the no. 2 phillips option.. The bolts are very rusty looking and I lightly tried to remove them but am too afraid of ruining them. To gain better access to them I was going to remove the 3 bolts that hold on the entire distributor unit.. When / if I pull the distributor to gain access, when I reinstall it do I just slide it back in and the timing will remain the same? Or am I going to encounter having to re time the car etc?

[TxGreaseMonkey]

Distributor Replacement

At AskMeHelpDesk.com, over 50% of new aftermarket distributors for Hondas have not worked out of the box. Many of those that initially worked didn't last very long. Therefore, I only recommend genuine Honda distributor housings. It's fine to buy a Honda housing and install an aftermarket Ignition Control Module (ICM) and coil, to keep the cost down. Three reasons account for the majority of Honda distributors needing replacement: orange dust, oil inside, or failed sensors.

1. Disconnect negative battery cable, after recording radio code.

2. Remove #2 Phillips head screw, securing 2-P and 8-P connector mount to the side of the distributor, using a precision screwdriver. Access is often improved if the air filter cover is removed first, using an 8mm nut driver. Separate 2-P and 8-P electrical connectors. The trick to separating these connectors is to squeeze the connector's mounting release first and remove from mount. Then, the connector will separate--do not force.

3. Mark distributor housing and bracket, for timing to be close later, using a scribe (or awl) and straight-edge.

4. Remove three hex-head machine screws, securing distributor cap to housing, using an 8mm nut driver.

5. Move distributor cap and wires off to the side.

6. Remove machine screw securing rotor to shaft, using #2 Phillips head screwdriver, and leak cover. It may be necessary to "hit" the starter once or twice, in order to rotate rotor for access to mounting screw.

7. Remove three 12mm bolts securing distributor housing to engine.

8. Remove old distributor, place on table, and remove coil, igniter, and cap seal.

9. Install old igniter, coil, leak cover, cap seal, and rotor in new distributor. Ensure female igniter terminals fit snugly--crimp with pliers, if necessary.

10. Coat O-ring with engine oil.

11. Install distributor, align timing marks on housing and bracket, and button things up.

12. Use a timing light, to precisely set idle speed and ignition timing.


Note: Due to the ingenious offset shaft, there's no way you can install the distributor incorrectly.

[TxGreaseMonkey]

I prefer to remove the distributor and work on it on my work bench.

Again, make sure your screwdriver tip fits perfectly--many members have gotten frustrated and ruined those screws and the screws mounting the ICM to the heat sink. Afterwards, apply anti-seize compound to the threads.

[TxGreaseMonkey]

Victory?

[permaspin]

Today I bought the ICM, came home installed it in the distributor flawlessly.. No stripped heads on screws.. Used the high quality die electric grease on the heat sink wires and re installed the distributor using my timing marks on the distributor house and distributor mount.

Un fortunatley when I bought the ICM, the ignition coil had to be ordered.. They've already called me and told me it's there.. So tomorrow morning ill pick up the new coil and after work mount it in the distrubtor, throw the cap on and away we go.