[youdipidipwedip]

I know I've asked questions about the EtG testing process before, but the whole thing really intrigues me. I am living in the constant threat of possibly having a test popped on me, so I'm constantly worried about having to avoid ethanol at all costs.

I honestly feel like I have to live in a bubble since many things contain alcohol and could cause me to test positive. Foods, cosmetics, hair products, the list goes on... But I'm wondering if you know anything about PEth testing, which is something else that is news to me.

From what I understand, it can test for alcohol for up to 3 weeks. If you know anything about this test, what do you know/think about its accuracy and reliability?

I'm curious about this test for several reasons. I drink non-alcoholic beer occasionally, so would a test like this show the 6-pack of O'Douls I had a week ago or something like that? And if someone really was drinking actual alcohol, would a one-night stint of partying 3 weeks ago really cause someone to pass an EtG and fail this PEth test? Also, how often are these testing measures used?

It's a terrible feeling knowing that something so menial like hairspray can cause you to fail a test that could ruin so much of your life. Any insight you have would be so appreciated!

[DrBill100]

PEth (phosphatidylethanol) is a blood test. Not widely used due to problems of 1) obtaining sample, and 2) the sample must be shipped frozen or refrigerated.

Thus far I have found only 2 labs offering the test (MedTox & USDTL)

USDTL has developed a system for testing dried blood spots that seems to overcome the problems of whole blood testing-noted above. Don't know how that's working out. (See PethStat below)

All of the research seems to agree PEth detection is dependent on sustained alcohol consumption seemingly daily intake. Where the disagreements emerge is how much (drinks per day), and for how long.

Some estimate that a consumption of one drink a day for 7 days, others two drinks a day for 2-3 weeks and others claim 4 drinks a day for 3 weeks. Some state a one time drinking session in excess of 7 drinks will create detectable levels - others that one time excessive drinking will not.

I'm still looking into PEth and really not finding definite answers.

Nothing points to the detection of low level consumption such as in NA beer.

1) Wurst 2010
2) Hansson, HPLC 2005
3) Varga, 2006
4) PethStat USDTL
5) Skipper (unk time)
6) Anders Isaksson, 2011
7) MedTox

[youdipidipwedip]

Very interesting. From everything I can read, the bottom line seems to be that neither of these tests are reliable. At least not for zero tolerance programs. Again, it's scary to think that use of vanilla extract in a pastry can equal jail time (ironic, since I am currently at a destination wedding and cannot eat the cake for this reason. )

What is the real risk of foods that contain alcohol registering levels above 100ng/mL on an EtG? Is this passive contact easily metabolized or should I still be actively avoiding all ethanol at any cost?

(I know for certain that I have a test at noon on Monday. )

[Fr_Chuck]

I am sorry I find this almost comical, you are afraid of hair spray and vanilla extract but have no issue drinking a six pack. Seems if you were really concerned and trying to follow the rules you would have a larger fear of actually drinking.

[DrBill100]

Very interesting. From everything I can read, the bottom line seems to be that neither of these tests are reliable. At least not for zero tolerance programs. Again, it's scary to think that use of vanilla extract in a pastry can equal jail time (ironic, since I am currently at a destination wedding and cannot eat the cake for this reason. )

What is the real risk of foods that contain alcohol registering levels above 100ng/mL on an EtG? Is this passive contact easily metabolized or should I still be actively avoiding all ethanol at any cost?

(I know for certain that I have a test at noon on Monday. )

False positives due to exposure to or ingestion of trace amounts of alcohol (TAA) is largely a matter of timing. TAA can create EtG that spikes above level of detection (LOD). However, it remains at or above LOD for a very short period. Keep in mind that EtG/EtS peaks in the range of 2-5 hours following peak alcohol and peak alcohol about 20-30 minutes following consumption.

When considering TAA, via food in particular, allow yourself a range of 12 hours after intake. That should avoid any systemic EtG/EtS.

However, due to the ever present possibility of exposure via inhalation to TAA it is advisable to stay well hydrated at all times. The Institute of Medicine recommends roughly 3 liters (about 13 cups) of total beverages a day for men and 2.2 liters (about 9 cups) of total beverages a day for women simply as a matter of health. Follow this as a minimum at all times.

Once again, timing. Following the guidelines above notwithstanding, prior to testing make a point of drinking 16 oz of water about 3 hours before the test, and urinate about 1 hour before the test. Following this time line and practice will go a long way toward 1) avoiding overly concentrate urine (very important), 2) cleansing your system of EtG/EtS resulting from TAA and 3) will not result in overly dilute urine.

Since research of EtG/EtS synthesis and the wide inter-individual variation that is known to exist, the above is not fool proof. EtG has been detected among totally abstinent populations that have had no exposure to ethanol, even in young children and amazingly in consumables.

If you follow the guidelines above you will minimize the chances for a false positive. But there are no guarantees with this test.

I agree that PEth seems to be developing along the same dark and foggy path as EtG before it. With the exception of the time line, the very same claims were advanced for EtG; only present when alcoholic beverage consumed, absolute proof of drinking, etc. That is now totally discredited.

[youdipidipwedip]

@Fr_Chuck : if you were paying attention, you'd notice that the 6pack was non alcoholic beer. So thanks.

[youdipidipwedip]

Thanks so much for all your help DrBill.

One last question: I just noticed on the ingredients list for the sunscreen I've been drowning myself in, it has listed phenoxyethanol as an ingredient. Should I be concerned about exposure to this and will this register any EtG? Or is this a totally different compound?

[DrBill100]

Thanks so much for all your help DrBill.

One last question: I just noticed on the ingredients list for the sunscreen I've been drowning myself in, it has listed phenoxyethanol as an ingredient. Should I be concerned about exposure to this and will this register any EtG? Or is this a totally different compound?

Give me the name of the sun-block. Was just working on this subject. Most contain SD alcohol 40.

[youdipidipwedip]

It's Hawaiian Tropic's "Sheer Touch" Broad Spectrum SPF 50. It lists cetearyl alcohol as a main ingredient, but towards the end of the list is phenoxyethanol. No SD alcohol 40, thought. Does have some extracts, but not sure if those have alcohol as well??

[DrBill100]

I'm not finding the brand in the database that lists ingredients.

At any rate phenoxyethanol has never been tested for EtG synthesis and I am not familiar with metabolic route. It is primarily a preservative used in cosmetics, I note.

I will check it because of the way it is listed: ethanol, 2-phenoxy and for inhalation but it won't be until Monday or Tues.

[youdipidipwedip]

Not a problem. As I said, I have an EtG test on Monday around noon. I haven't applied any of the sunscreen since around 2pm yesterday, so even if it DID contain ethanol would you think that I would be clear by tomorrow afternoon?

[DrBill100]

Not a problem. As I said, I have an EtG test on Monday around noon. I haven't applied any of the sunscreen since around 2pm yesterday, so even if it DID contain ethanol would you think that I would be clear by tomorrow afternoon?

Should be fine at that time span.

[youdipidipwedip]

DrBill:

In order to help you look further into how sunscreens can relate to EtG synthesis, here is the listing for the ingredients of the specific sunscreen I used. :

Active Ingredients: Avobenzone (3%), Octocrylene (5%), Oxybenzone (4%)

Inactive Ingredients: Water, Ethylhexyl Benzoate, Butyloctyl Salicylate, Cetearyl Alcohol, Dicetyl Phosphate, Ceteth 10 Phosphate, Retinyl Palmitate (Vitamin A) (Vitamin A), Ascorbic Acid (Vitamin C) (Vitamin C), Tocopheryl Acetate (Vitamin E), PEG 8 Dimethicone, Sodium Proxyhydroxylpropyl Thiosulfate Silica, Octyldecanol, Silica, Carica Papaya (Papaya Fruit Extract), Mangifera Indica (Mango) (Mango Fruit Extract), Plumeria Acutifolia (Plumeria) Flower Extract, Colocasia Antiquorum Root Extract, Psidium Gaujava Fruit Extract (Guava), Passiflora Incarnata Fruit Extract (Passionflower), Aloe Vera (Aloe Barbadensis) Leaf Juice, Butyrospermum Parkii (Shea Butter) (Shea Butter), Mangifera Indica (Mango) Seed Butter (Mango), Phenethyl Benzoate, Polymehtylsilsequioxane, Diisopropyl Adipate, VP/Eicosene Copolymer, Coco Glucoside, Caprylyl Glycol, Glycerin, Dimethicone, Paraffin, Acrylates/C10 30 Alkyl Acrylate Crosspolymer, Disodium EDTA, Xanthan Gum, Triethanolamine, Phenoxyethanol, Propylparaben, Methylparaben, Fragrance

This is the website for reference: http://m.drugstore.com/hawaiian-tropic-sheer-touch-sunblock-lotion-spf-50/qxp248052

After reading it, I'm still slightly nervous, but other than that just trying to relax about the test tomorrow. I'm sure I'm overreacting. However, are there things on this list can contain ethanol without explicitly saying so? Such as extracts? Granted, I don't know what half those things are and have mostly just tried to avoid anything with ethanol, denatured alcohol, or SD alcohol 40 on the label. Anything else I should look for or be aware of while reading labels?

[DrBill100]

Based on the contents this seems to be a safe sunblocker. Many of the sunblocks contain denatured alcohol above the 50% range.

This isn't based on an analysis just on information currently available through FDA.

Here is a link to Household Products database. Here you can check any product for specific ingredients.

National Institutes of Health (NIH), Products

Add to your list Ethyl Acetate (EA or EtOAc). Your body transforms EA into ethanol and acetate on inhalation or ingestion.

Keep in mind my advice about hydration shown above. That is your very best protection against false positive from incidental exposure.

While false positives are given a great deal of attention, as it should be, because of severe consequences, the biggest problem with this test is false negatives.

[youdipidipwedip]

Agh! And the list just gets longer...

Ethyl acetate, huh? I feel like I should just go 100% organic and live in a sterile environment till this is over with. And go figure... I painted my toes on Saturday.

Well as of right now, I'm headed off to the test. I've been as hydrated as I can be, taken some vitamins, eaten lots of protein to boost my creatine

[youdipidipwedip]

(cont) and tried to stay away from everything as much as I could. The ethyl acetate news is a bit too late, but here's hoping that I haven't encountered enough of anything to really matter. I'll let you know how the results come out. (A part of me is expecting a dilute result. I may have overdone it on the agua.)

[youdipidipwedip]

Currently en route to picking up lab results. Scared as hell, and hoping that I'm just overreacting. I'll post results given that I'm not in the slammer.

[youdipidipwedip]

All right, so my tests came back all good. All negative. My creatinine was at 22 mg/dL. Borderline low, but still within their parameters. My EtG result simply had the number 20. Not sure what exactly that signifies, but if you know then please share!

[DrBill100]

Alright, so my tests came back all good. All negative. My creatinine was at 22 mg/dL. Borderline low, but still within their parameters. My EtG result simply had the number 20. Not sure what exactly that signifies, but if you know then please share!

The standard for creatinine is 20. That was close. I don't know what the 20 could indicate for EtG. If negative result it cannot be related to quantity so it is probably an agency key of some sort.

[texastoast96]

Will paints and stains and paint thinner cause me to fail a EtG?