[Alty]

Hi everyone.

Those of you that know me know my pets. Well, Jasper, our 10 year old obese border collie is having issues with his leg. It started before the weekend, and it's obviously bothering him.

I'll try to give a description of what's going on, and I want to let everyone know that he will be going to the vet tomorrow, so I'm not looking for a diagnosis, I'm looking for some ideas on how to help him until his appointment tomorrow.

It started with a limp. Not a big limp, but noticeable. So I checked the leg he was favoring and found a wound. It amounts to a scratch really. I disinfected it and I've been keeping an eye on it. It's fine. It's not infected, and it's healing. But he's been acting off. He's not greeting me when I come home (which he always does), he doesn't even wag his tail when he sees me. Usually he goes nuts when I come home. Barking, tail wagging, mommy I want some attention, I missed you so much, behavior. The last few days I've had to go looking for him, and even then, I don't even get a happy tail wag. Nothing. That's when I started to get concerned.

Hubby is on nights right now. So he's home during the day, I'm home from 3pm on. Well, I came home, checked on Jasper, and I have to say, I haven't really seen him do a lot of walking or standing when I've been home. He goes out to pee and poo, eat and drink, but even then, it's not like he normally is. He's eating fine, drinking fine, but he's melancholy. Not himself.

Well hubby called me when I got home from work, said he made an appointment with the vet because the thinks there's more to this then just a cut on Jasper's leg. He thinks Jasper's leg is dislocated, or his shoulder popped out. Well, after I got off the phone with hubby, Jasper got up to get a drink, and I watched him. When he's standing you can see his front leg pop out of place. That's the best way I can describe it. He'll be standing, all is fine, and all of a sudden his leg will pop away from his body, and you can definitely see that it's not natural. Something is going on with that leg.

He's not yelping, or whining. He is limping when he walks, but I don't think it's because he's in pain as much as the fact that the leg won't do what it's supposed to do. I think the limp is more because of what's going on with the leg then it is because of any pain he may be feeling.

He goes to the vet tomorrow, but until then, he's not happy, and I can't stand to see him this way.

Any suggestions? I thought of wrapping the leg in a tensor bandage. Around the shoulder, on the leg, just to help steady it. But I'm worried that I may cause more damage that way.

I've given him baby aspirin so that any pain he may be feeling should be lessened. We can't get an earlier appointment, and like I said, he doesn't really seem to be in pain. He's walking on it, it's just not right.

Any suggestions? Anything at all?

[LadySam]

Yeah, I would stay away from the wrapping too, you don't want to impede the circulation to the foot.
Sorry he is having a tough time right now.
About the only suggestion I have is to help him out with a sling and let him stay off it when he doesn't need to be moving around.
How do you think he may have injured it?

[mogrann]

. All I can say is keep him off the leg as much as possible. Put him on a leash when you take him out so that he can't try to run etc. (this is all advice you guys gave me for Owen).
Good luck at the vet tomorrow! I know how tough it is when our furbabies are ill or injured.

[Alty]

Thank you both.

Keeping him on a leash isn't an issue. He seems to know that he can't run and play right now, which is why I didn't notice the way the leg was when he was putting weight on it, until today. He's been resting, and not doing a lot of walking unless it's necessary.

I don't know how well a sling would work. I wish I could describe what's going on in a better way. I'd bet money that the leg or shoulder is dislocated. When I saw him standing to drink from his water bowl, it was scary to see the way his leg bent. It was like his leg gave way, and then went to a very unnatural angle. I've only seen something like that once, when my son dislocated his shoulder.

If I'm right, then that would explain why he's not feeling any pain. His leg is most likely numb because it's dislocated. But that's just a guess. The vet will know for sure.

I have no idea how he did it, but he's not young. He's 10 years old, and he's obese. Extremely obese. Not our doing. He gets diet food and plenty of exercise, but for some reason he's still fat, and getting fatter every day. We've had his thyroid tested, and he has all the symptoms of thyroid disease, including the flaky skin, but the test came back negative for thyroid disease, and no diet food or amount of exercise works.

I'm worried that his weight will hinder him even further. If this is a dislocated leg or shoulder, like I'm guessing, then they can pop it into place. But his weight will make healing so much worse, and that's not even factoring in his age.

We have a 3 year old beagle too, and they love to play together. I would bet that that's how he hurt it, or dislocated it. He tries to keep up with the youngun, and he's no longer as young and spry as he used to be.

I've never been this anxious to get to the vet. We told the vet the issue, and we still couldn't get an appointment until tomorrow. Simply can't afford to go to emergency and pay 4 times what we would pay at the vet. It will be hard enough to dish out the money for the regular vet, but it has to be done. He's our baby. We love him. He deserves all we can do for him, and if it means that I have to work double time for a few months, so be it.

Lady Sam, I gave him aspirin, but my husband (who loves animals, and loves our dogs, but has no idea about animal care) gave him tylenol a few days ago. I had no idea. I was at work and he just told me today that that's what he'd done. His thought was that tylenol could help with inflammation. Now I'm afraid. I told him that he should only give aspirin, but I'm wondering if even that's recommended.

I just need some tips until tomorrow. I want him to have a restful night, but then again, he really doesn't seem to be in pain. He's just not himself and his leg is messed up! It's freaky. I wish you could see it. You'd all say "WTF?" ;)

[Alty]

I just checked him. I can move his other legs, and when I do, I meet the resistance I expect. The leg that's bothering him, moves in an unnatural way. I can move it further than the others. It's as if it's not connected.

I'd still bet money that it's dislocated. I'm worried that this may cause permanent damage.

I'm just so worried about him. Sorry to be a nuisance. I am the pets expert, and I know that the vet is the only option. I also know that the best I can do for him is to let him rest until he goes to the vet. But I'm also the mom of a dog that I love, and when that part of me comes out, I just want advice, or someone to tell me it's going to be okay, even though I know that none of you can offer that, my hubby is at work, it's just me and the kids, and I feel very helpless right now.

I guess I just need a hug, and some encouragement that I'm doing all I can. In other words, I need a boost.

[mogrann]

Alty pretend this thread was written by someone else.. you are doing everything you need to. You ARE a great pet owner. Jasper knows it too. Hugs

[LadySam]

So I'm guessing he didn't act painful when you moved the leg, that at least is a good thing.
With shoulders or front legs at work I use a sling, but rather than putting it behind both front legs to help them walk, I go in front of one shoulder then behind the opposite leg. That way it doesn't slip and you have a little more stability and control. It may help him out, may not.
Aspirin is safe, the two adverse effects would be possible stomach upset and increased bleeding should he need surgery. Aspirin is a blood thinner so I would watch how much I gave him, just in case. Of course my fingers are crossed that won't be the case.
I agree with saving the emergency vet money if he is not noticeably in distress, better spent at your regular vet and getting him straightened out.
The emergency vet most likely will stabilize and have you follow up with your vet anyway.
And ANY diagnostics they do will be expensive.
So I get your thinking there.
And don't forget to tell them about the meds you have given so far.
What am I saying? I know you will do that.
Good Luck tomorrow I hope he is on his feet soon.

And here's a virtual hug.
Try not to worry too much during the night. I know that's hard, sorry.

[Alty]

Alty pretend this thread was written by someone else.. you are doing everything you need to. You ARE a great pet owner. Jasper knows it too. hugs

No fair making me cry. (hugs)

Thank you Mogrann. I have looked at this thread as I would if it weren't me, and my advice would be to go to the vet, which we're doing. But then, if the OP came back and said "we can't afford a vet", I'd say "then you shouldn't have a dog", and that makes me feel like a hypocrite. Frankly, vet care is expensive, and I don't know anyone that can actually afford it, but I know many people that are great pet owners. That's not fair!

We'll get this sorted out, and we'll pay what we have to, but this whole thing has me thinking that the whole vet thing is a bunch of bull. They've made it so that only the super rich can afford to have pets, and most of the people I know, that actually deserve to have pets, aren't super rich.

So, what do we have? You can love your pet, but if something major comes up and you don't have thousands of dollars to fix it, your only option is to euthanize, and that's not cheap either.

There are 5 million dogs being killed in shelters every year in the US alone, because there aren't enough homes. Why? Because most people can't afford vet care!

Jasper will get the care he needs, and if I have to sell my soul to make it happen, it will. But this whole thing, and other issues that have come up this week, all dog health related, has made me sick.

Something has to give. If it is a dislocated shoulder, then it should be fixed, and it shouldn't cost us thousands.

I'm on a different rant now. Starting a thread about it. Why? I just got a call from a friend. A dog we used to dogsit for may have cancer. She's Jasper's buddy. She was Indy's buddy too.

It's just too much. We just lost Indy, now Jasper is sick, and now a call that Fido may have cancer, and if she does, the treatment may cost her owners 10's of thousands of dollars, and she may still die in the end. It's just too much. I should step back. It's making me upset.

Those of us that love animals, love them as much as we love the people in our lives. They're not pets, they're family. Why should anyone have to sacrifice family simply because they can't afford the rich jerks that happen to have the degree and education to help them? I thought vets became vets because they love animals. Well prove it! Make it affordable to help your pet!

I really should get off my soapbox now. I'm just so upset about everything. All dog stuff this week. I can't lose another. I can't lose not even one more, even one I don't know. Something has to be done for all the dogs, not just Jasper, not just Fido, but the system has to change. Humanity has to count for something!

[Alty]

So I'm guessing he didn't act painful when you moved the leg, that at least is a good thing.
With shoulders or front legs at work I use a sling, but rather than putting it behind both front legs to help them walk, I go in front of one shoulder then behind the opposite leg. That way it doesn't slip and you have a little more stability and control. It may help him out, may not.
Aspirin is safe, the two adverse effects would be possible stomach upset and increased bleeding should he need surgery. Aspirin is a blood thinner so I would watch how much I gave him, just in case. Of course my fingers are crossed that won't be the case.
I agree with saving the emergency vet money if he is not noticeably in distress, better spent at your regular vet and getting him straightened out.
The emergency vet most likely will stabilize and have you follow up with your vet anyway.
And ANY diagnostics they do will be expensive.
So I get your thinking there.
And don't forget to tell them about the meds you have given so far.
What am I saying? I know you will do that.
Good Luck tomorrow I hope he is on his feet soon.

And heres a virtual hug.
Try not to worry to much during the night. I know that's hard, sorry.

Thank you Lady Sam.

I'm anxious about the vet tomorrow, but happy that he'll at least have some relief. I hope. I also hope it doesn't cost us our home and cars. ;)

I just want him to be himself again. The good news is that he really doesn't seem to be in pain at all. He just can't walk well on this leg.

I've going to give him a baby aspirin tonight, and hope that if there is pain, that will help ease it. My best bet now is that the vet will fix this, and won't prolong things doing unnecessary tests that will only rack up the bill. :(

[paleophlatus]

Hi Alty... Sorry for your problems and I am in total agreement about vet prices.I was there when it all started and am aghast at where the profession has wound up. But a topic for another day and place.
Any unusual movement, especially if it is not associated with a joint, is suggestive of some form of bone loss disease, and consequent "fracture, or failure of the bone to provide support. Osteoporosis is one example. A better example is a fracture that did not heal properly, or at all. No knitting of bone, so the broken ends simply overgrow with a cartilage like material and bend and twist as a false-joint, without much evidence of pain, just a leg that bends in the wrong place.
If you were here in the SW USA, I would suggest Valley Fever, but...you're not.
An older puncture wound may have infected and created an osteomyelitis, or bone infection which can result in a bone failure at the site.
And then there is the old "favorite", a malignancy, which causes a severe thinning and weakening of bone in the area. These are usually painful and noticeable weeks or months before getting to this stage, due to the swollen area at the site. Most such malignancies occur close to, but seldom involve the joint.
This is not a complete list of what may be wrong, but it's enough to have upset you, for which I apologize. Let's hope it is just bizarre, and less serious 'problem', because good news is easier to accept than a surprise of bad news.

[grammadidi]

I echo everyone else's thoughts. Short of taking him to an Emergency vet clinic you have done all you can and there is probably nothing you can do to help Jasper feel any better until he sees the vet other than limit his activity, which he is already doing for himself. I hope it's nothing too serious. His obesity can hinder his progress though.

Actually, the weight gain and this leg issue might indicate something else internal, too, so keep that in the back of your mind for future reference if there doesn't appear to be a significant injury when the vet checks him over. I am concerned that it may be a radial nerve issue. Could he have been hit by a car or something similar?

Anyhow, I'm sure you are sleeping by now, but please let us know as soon as you can what the vet says. My thoughts are with you...

Hugs, Didi

[Alty]

Hi Alty...Sorry for your problems and I am in total agreement about vet prices.I was there when it all started and am aghast at where the profession has wound up. But a topic for another day and place.
Any unusual movement, especially if it is not associated with a joint, is suggestive of some form of bone loss disease, and consequent "fracture, or failure of the bone to provide support. Osteoporosis is one example. A better example is a fracture that did not heal properly, or at all. No knitting of bone, so the broken ends simply overgrow with a cartilage like material and bend and twist as a false-joint, without much evidence of pain, just a leg that bends in the wrong place.
If you were here in the SW USA, I would suggest Valley Fever, but...you're not.
An older puncture wound may have infected and created an osteomyelitis, or bone infection which can result in a bone failure at the site.
And then there is the old "favorite", a malignancy, which causes a severe thinning and weakening of bone in the area. These are usually painful and noticeable weeks or months before getting to this stage, due to the swollen area at the site. Most such malignancies occur close to, but seldom involve the joint.
This is not a complete list of what may be wrong, but it's enough to have upset you, for which I apologize. Let's hope it is just bizarre, and less serious 'problem', because good news is easier to accept than a surprise of bad news.

Thank you so much for your post Paleo.

We had the appointment booked for today, but they called us and cancelled. They had a few emergencies come in, and since Jasper doesn't seem to be in pain, they didn't consider him to priority, so he's been rescheduled for Thursday. :(

I called the emergency vet, because at this point I'm willing to pay the extra cost just to have him seen, but when I told them what was going on, they said to wait until Thursday unless he shows signs of severe distress. So it's Tuesday right now, and I have no options but to wait until Thursday.

Like I said before, he really doesn't seem to be in pain. He's not himself, but he's eating, drinking, and walking. He does rest a lot, and only gets up when he absolutely has to, and when he does, his leg just looks wrong. It will "give way" when he's standing. I really wish I could describe it better.

It's not swollen, he allows me to touch it and doesn't seem to care at all when I do. But when I move it around, it feels almost like it's not attached to his body.

I guess I'll have to wait until Thursday and hope for the best. Not knowing is killing me, but he seems to be worry free. :)

[Alty]

I echo everyone else's thoughts. Short of taking him to an Emergency vet clinic you have done all you can and there is probably nothing you can do to help Jasper feel any better until he sees the vet other than limit his activity, which he is already doing for himself. I hope it's nothing too serious. His obesity can hinder his progress though.

Actually, the weight gain and this leg issue might indicate something else internal, too, so keep that in the back of your mind for future reference if there doesn't appear to be a significant injury when the vet checks him over. I am concerned that it may be a radial nerve issue. Could he have been hit by a car or something similar?

Anyhow, I'm sure you are sleeping by now, but please let us know as soon as you can what the vet says. My thoughts are with you...

Hugs, Didi

Hi Didi.

He's never anywhere where he could be hit by a car. When we go for walks he's always on leash, unless we go to the off leash park, and that's a very large fenced in wooded area, no cars. Other then that he's in the house or in our fenced backyard.

He does however have a very exuberant 3 year old beagle to play with, and he loves to play, despite his age and his weight. It's entirely possible that he was chasing (never catching) Chewy in the yard, and slipped or tripped the wrong way.

I am very concerned that his weight will make this issue even worse, but this isn't a recent weight gain. He's been obese for many years (since he was around 2 years old). I'd still bet that it's a thyroid condition, and Paleo and I have discussed that, and I even suggested the testing that Paleo recommended to my vet, but since they did the blood work test for thyroid that came back negative, they're confident that this is not the issue. I'm not.

The thing is, he's obese, but we don't overfeed him, and he does get every day exercise (except for the last few days because he's really not up to it). He's on diet food, and he only gets the recommended serving every day. He also gets a lot of exercise playing with our beagle. Just on a side note, the beagle has the same diet and exercise routine, and he's a beagle (they're prone to obesity), and he's a very healthy weight. But with Jasper, despite everything we've done, he continues to gain, and to top it off, he has the dry flaky skin that is a indicator of a thyroid condition.

I'm beside myself right now. I feel so bad for him. I know he's not happy, but I'd bet that it's not because he's in pain. I think he's depressed because he can't do everything he usually does right now. Even Chewy seems to sense that Jasper isn't well. He usually eggs Jasper on to go outside and play. Chewy even brings both leashes when it's time for a walk. He hasn't been doing that. In fact, he refuses to go for his own walk because Jasper can't come. He's been spending a lot of time just laying next to Jasper, licking his leg.

If only they could talk. :(

[DoulaLC]

Hi Alty,

Does he jump off the sofa or beds? Could he have possibly dislocated it? Just a thought.
Sending healing thoughts... hope it isn't anything serious.

[Alty]

Hi Alty,

Does he jump off of the sofa or beds? Could he have possibly dislocated it? Just a thought.
Sending healing thoughts.....hope it isn't anything serious.

Hi Doula.

No, he doesn't jump off sofas and beds, only because he's too fat to get on them to begin with. Poor fat pup. ;)

A dislocation is what I'm thinking this is, but not from jumping. I'd bet that he hurt it while playing with Chewy, when we weren't around to see it happen. :(

Thank you so much. I'm now waiting until Thursday and hoping for the best. He's not a young pup, he's 10 years old, and a larger breed dog. I'm worried, but I'm trying to be optimistic.

[LadySam]

With all due respect for your vet. They put him off until Thursday?
I guess we just do things differently, I couldn't tell you how many times we have stayed late to see a client whether it was an emergency or not, however I have helped out at clinics where that was not the case.
Makes for a long day, but part of why I love where I am, the dedication of our staff.
I'm sorry you have to wait until then.
At any rate, still hoping he does well and it's nothing serious.

[Alty]

Jasper just got back from the vet. They took x-rays, did blood work, every test they could think of to find out what's going on. My guess was wrong, his shoulder/ arm is not dislocated. Actually, they have no idea what's going on, they only have guesses. They think that he may have strained his leg, and because he's an older dog, the strain caused his arthritis (which is news to me) to flair up even more. So they gave him a muscle relaxant and pain pills.

The bad news is that now he's not eating. In fact, he hasn't eaten in almost two days. We've tried everything, all his favorites, anything we could get into him. He won't even eat steak, or a weiner (his favs).

So they sent him home with pain meds (getting him to take one was really fun. In fact, I think that giving a cat meds would be easier), and now we're all hoping that the pains meds will make him comfortable enough that he'll get his appetite back.

He's much worse then he was when this all started, and the vet has absolutely no idea what's going on. She's basically going by trial and error. So we have to wait and see. But I don't know if Jasper has that kind of time.

Anyone have any ideas on how to get some food into him?

I have a very bad feeling that this may not end well. I'm sitting here crying right now. We just put Indy to sleep less then 5 months ago, now Jasper is deathly ill. I just want him to be okay, to not be in pain. Any suggestions would be welcome.

[LadySam]

Are you up for making a slurry of canned dog food and syringe feeding him if he continues to not eat.
I am certainly not a vet, you know that, but if nothing showed up on x-ray, did they mention, perhaps a radial nerve injury?

Radial Nerve Paralysis in Dogs and Cats

I'm not trying to diagnose but it is a possibility worth mentioning.

[Alty]

Lady Sam, and advice anyone can offer at this point is very welcome, especially since the vet doesn't seem to know what's going on anymore then we do.

I'm going to the store in around 30 minutes to buy a turkey baster, and all the nummiest food I can find. At this point I don't care if he eats dog food, or cavier, as long as I get something into him. If I have to force it, I will.

They didn't mention a radial nerve injury, as far as I know. Sadly I couldn't be at the appointment, so everything I know about it, my husband told me.

He goes back in a few days, sooner if he doesn't start to eat. I'll definitely mention this to the vet. :)

[shazamataz]

I desperately want to sugar coat it because it's you but the not eating part is very worrying.
I called my mum earlier today and we were talking about you actually, I had no idea what was going on until mum mentioned she saw it on FB!

You could get some nutrigel to rub on his gums just to give him a bit of a sugar and vitamin boost, or even some glucose just to perk him up a bit. If his blood sugar drops then he'll feel worse and be even less inclined to eat... Been there done that.

I'm going to give an "out there" suggestion but what about a bite? Cy has been bitten by some unknown bug twice now and both times he stopped eating for several days and pawed at his ear for maybe 3-4 days. There was no swelling and we couldn't find a bite mark (he's a hairless dog so it wouldn't be too hidden!)
Is it possible Jasper has had a really bad reaction to a venom? If he was bitten on his leg it could be very painful and given his age he could be having a hard time getting it out of his system.

Like I said, out there suggestion but I'm racking my brain here.

I can't really offer anything else but virtual hugs x