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shazamataz · Apr 27, 2012, 10:36 AM

What better way to enforce law and make people behave than inventing an all powerful being that will strike them down if they are "naughty".

These days we just have police officers, but religion still hangs around too.

talaniman · Apr 27, 2012, 11:08 AM

Originally Posted by shazamataz

What better way to enforce law and make people behave than inventing an all powerful being that will strike them down if they are "naughty".

These days we just have police officers, but religion still hangs around too.

What better way to have authority, and power than say you are doing as your god directs you.

Or the devil made me do it. Or contraceptives for women are against the church, but viagra is cool. Don't get me wrong, believe what you want, we are free to do that, and I can admit I have been wrong before. But there is something wrong when somebody says they are always right, so YOU must be wrong.

Wondergirl · Apr 27, 2012, 11:51 AM

Originally Posted by shazamataz

What better way to enforce law and make people behave than inventing an all powerful being that will strike them down if they are "naughty".

These days we just have police officers, but religion still hangs around too.

But it's not the God who is saying that. It's ill-informed people who are making up stuff (and badly interpreting the Bible) to use as a cudgel on those they want to control.

NeedKarma · Apr 27, 2012, 12:08 PM

Originally Posted by Wondergirl

... to use as a cudgel on those ...

+1 for "cudgel" - I had to look it up. :-)

ScottGem · Apr 27, 2012, 12:14 PM

Originally Posted by confusedchild8

I am looking for reasons and facts for why god doesn't exist, or why people shouldn't believe in god... And how religion is all made up, can anyone help me out please?

Facts you are not going to get. Because the facts do not exist. Religion is based on faith, not facts. However, different people can give you myriad reasons they believe one way or the other. Ultimately it is up to you do decide what makes sense to you.

Religion is one of the most discussed topics around. There are several discussion on this site that you can choose from.

We might be able to help you better if you explain what is behind your question and what is bothering you about religion.

ScottGem · Apr 27, 2012, 12:22 PM

Originally Posted by paraclete

athiests would deny us freedom of speech, freedom of expression, just becuase they are of a different opinion. Once we would have done the same to them but we are more enlightened now. Reality is God doesn't want us to defend his existence, since the evidence is in plain sight but the athiests are blind,

Thing is if we are wrong we have believed a lie, if they are wrong they have eternity to experience the truth of their error

Oh please where do you get that garbage? Atheists are no more against freedom of speech and freedom of expression then any other christian, muslim, jew, buddhist or whatever. If you claim the right to believe what you wish to believe that why shouldn't atheists have that same right? In fact, atheists are MORE inclined to support those freedoms because they have arrived at their beliefs based more on logic and reason rather than faith.

If anyone is blind, it is those who blindly believe in the word of the bible as specific and accurate. And who deny scientific facts when they challenge those beliefs.

I find it almost amusing that you spout such garbage about atheists and then talk about "we" being more enlightened. Who is this we, by the way. And how can you claim enlightenment when you spout totally specious accusations like you did?

paraclete · May 2, 2012, 04:23 PM

Originally Posted by confusedchild8

I am looking for reasons and facts for why god doesn't exist, or why people shouldn't believe in god... And how religion is all made up, can anyone help me out please?

No I can't help you with that because you are approaching your problem from the wrong direction. A person who had this difficulty was Josh Mc dowell, he did a comprehensive study attempting to prove God doesn't exist and set it down in books called Evidence that demands a verdict. Ultimately he became a believer because the evidence points to the existence of God.

As to religion being made up, well that is quite possible, because religion and belief in God are actually two different questions. Religion is man's attempt to deal with the reality that God does exist, has standards he expects us to comply with and our own inadequacy

ScottGem · May 3, 2012, 03:34 AM

Originally Posted by paraclete

Religion is man's attempt to deal with the reality that God does exist,

Sorry, I have said this before and will say it again. There is NO factual proof that God exists. The existence of a God is based on faith not reality, not fact. I will not state that God does not exist, because just as no one can prove there is a god, no one can prove there isn't.

If you believe in the reality of a God, that is your BELIEF and you are welcome to it. I am glad there are people that find comfort in that belief. But I will not stand by and have anyone tell me their belief is reality when there is no real proof. Just as you are entitled to believe what you want, so are others. Telling anyone their beliefs are wrong because you believe something different is very wrong In my opinion.

paraclete · May 3, 2012, 05:31 AM

Originally Posted by ScottGem

Sorry, I have said this before and will say it again. There is NO factual proof that God exists. The existence of a God is based on faith not reality, not fact. I will not state that God does not exist, because just as no one can prove there is a god, no one can prove there isn't.

If you believe in the reality of a God, that is your BELIEF and you are welcome to it. I am glad there are people that find comfort in that belief. But I will not stand by and have anyone tell me their belief is reality when there is no real proof. Just as you are entitled to believe what you want, so are others. Telling anyone their beliefs are wrong because you believe something different is very wrong IMHO.

It is sad Scott that you perpetuate this illusion. I have set down a number of events in my book Revival ~ a different perspective which not only clearly demonstated to myself and others that God exists but also that he communicates with those who are open to listen. So what I state is fact and I'm sorry if you don't want to believe me but my testimony is the truth not based on anyone's experiences by my own. It is more that belief it is fact.

talaniman · May 3, 2012, 06:15 AM

Nice opinion, and we are all glad you stand by it.

ScottGem · May 3, 2012, 07:16 AM

Originally Posted by paraclete

It is sad Scott that you perpetuate this illusion. I have set down a number of events in my book Revival ~ a different perspective which not only clearly demonstated to myself and others that God exists but also that he communicates with those who are open to listen. So what I state is fact and I'm sorry if you don't want to believe me but my testimony is the truth not based on anyones experiences by my own. It is more that belief it is fact.

The only one perpetuating an illusion is you. I am 100% sure that you have demonstrated both to yourself an others that God exists. But all of your demonstrating is still based on faith. Faith that events stated in the Bible actually happened. Faith that the teachings of the Bible represent fact. Faith in extrapolated evidence that suggests the existence of a God. But it is all based on FAITH. Were you there to witness these events? Do you have any hard scientific facts that prove beyond a shadow of doubt of that existence. The answer is that you don't. Because such evidence does not exist! You said it yourself "a different perspective". That's not facts that's viewpoint.

So either you don't understand the difference between fact and belief or you are deluding yourself.

Don't get me wrong. I'm sure you have found enough evidence to convince yourself. I am not challenging that. That your belief is real to you is clear and I'm not challenging that. If you want to say to anyone that you are convinced that god exists and this is why, I have no problem with that. But when you tell me that God's existence is fact and that anyone who believes otherwise is wrong, I have a big problem with that. Again, I'm not saying you are wrong and that God does not exist. I am saying only that there is no factual, scientific, irrefutable evidence to prove his existence, just as there is no factual, scientific irrefutable evidence to prove that God doesn't exist.

But I don't expect you to accept this. I'm arguing from a rational fact based perspective. You are arguing from a perspective grounded in faith and your beliefs. We will never resolve this because it is not resolvable since we approach the issue from diametrically opposed positions.

But, as I said earlier, I will not stand by when I see someone make a statement of fact when no fact exists.

paraclete · Jun 27, 2012, 11:34 PM

You don't get it Scott the events I describe in my book I was there for, not some extrapolation of Scripture although it clearly lines up with Scripture but actual events, happening to actual people who are still alive to testify that it in fact did happen. Did I go around asking God to mainfest himself to me, no I didn't, but he chose to do so and it certainly strengthened my faith. There is a whole world out there you have no idea about because your mind is closed.

Do you know why there is not evidence to support your ideas that God does not exist, because his existence is proven over and over to those who choose to take him at his word. You want to take him into a laboratory and stick needles into him perhaps cut him open to see what is inside, but the evidence is clear, it doesn't need you to do that. God is spirit, not flesh. His power is beyond anything you can imagine, but it is not like earthly power needing armies to enforce it

ScottGem · Jun 28, 2012, 03:14 AM

Originally Posted by paraclete

you don't get it Scott

No YOU don't get it. Can you point me to ONE piece of scientific absolute proof that GOD exists? Not the testimony of witnesses,not an extrapolation of facts to support a belief, but a direct piece of evidence?

You can't because such evidence does not exist. If it did exist then we wouldn't be having this discussion. You would have to write a book about it, there wouldn't be different religions in the world. Any evidence you have is based on your faith, it all comes down to your wanting to believe. But there is no direct, irrefutable scientific evidence.

hauntinghelper · Jul 11, 2012, 06:38 PM

Originally Posted by paraclete

you don't get it Scott the events I describe in my book I was there for, not some extrapolation of Scripture although it clearly lines up with Scripture but actual events, happening to actual people who are still alive to testify that it in fact did happen. did I go around asking God to mainfest himself to me, no I didn't, but he chose to do so and it certainly strengthened my faith. There is a whole world out there you have no idea about because your mind is closed.

Do you know why there is not evidence to support your ideas that God does not exist, because his existence is proven over and over to those who choose to take him at his word. you want to take him into a laboratory and stick needles into him perhaps cut him open to see what is inside, but the evidence is clear, it doesn't need you to do that. God is spirit, not flesh. His power is beyond anything you can imagine, but it is not like earthly power needing armies to enforce it

He wasn't saying that God does not exist... only that we have to exercise tact and compassion when putting forth our view. I agree with you 100%... but faith is still the hope for things unseen. As a student of both science and theology I find it impossible to NOT believe in God, but I also remember that not everyone has seen it that way yet. My time at AMHD has taught me a lot about the presentation of my beliefs and "fact". I came on very forceful and rude and have learned since then that is not the best way to go about as a good and PRODUCTIVE witness. Look at every single paranormal post... it's the same problems over and over... with the same advice given over and over... with the same arguments over and over. I have experienced the authority and deliverance I talk of first hand. Of course it is different for those of us who have experienced this truth... but remember the countless others who have not yet.

classyT · Jul 11, 2012, 08:52 PM

Hhelper,

I agree with you. I am saved by the blood of Jesus and believe so much in the Lord, his work on the cross and all he has done. I can't IMAGINE not having a relationship with him.. I feel like if anyone experienced what I have they would KNOW that they KNOW God exsists and loves us.

Having said ALL that it is clear from the Bible that it takes faith to believe that HE is and he is a rewarder to those that diligently seek him. Without faith it is impossible to please him. Sure God also says we should be able to look around and KNOW that he IS. But even if we lived during the time of Christ and we saw him raised from the dead with our own eyes there would still be those that wouldn't believe. Jesus rose Lazarus up from the dead and plenty of people watched it and left unbelieving. Why? Because even facts don't produce faith!! And God is clear.. it takes faith.

ScottGem · Jul 12, 2012, 03:29 AM

To Hauntinghelper and ClassyT;

Thank you. You have both expressed your views in a way that does not challenge other people's views, that expresses the strength of your views so that people can take notice. I am very happy for you both that your faith gives you comfort and strength.

classyT · Jul 12, 2012, 07:59 AM

Scott

It is a learning process for me... I use to try to challenge others and fight. I had to learn it is a turn off to others and I never once made someone stop and think about my views. I wanted to say what I had to say without listening to their views. A cycle that wasn't productive.