[excon]

Hello:

I've HEARD that people entering the workforce feel "entitled". I don't know what that means. I don't know what entitlements they expect, or whether it's even true.

MY generation didn't expect anything... But, MY generation experienced winners and losers . We didn't CONCEAL them, which is what I think we do now. We let EVERYBODY win, and the real world doesn't work that way.

Am I making up stuff? Is this a problem?

excon

PS> If this thread needs to be in the "feelings" category, feel free to move it.

[alkalineangel]

Yes it is a problem. It is a BIG problem. And I am in this generation (well, I am 29, so depending which generation you are talking about.. ) I guess I was raised in an old fashioned way where you respected your elders and earned your way to better things, but it irks me to hear the stuff my co-workers/friends/children's friend's parents gripe about. It annoys me to no end to see the way people "parent" their kids by being their best friend. I can't stand that in everything my children do, from sports to school there is this "Everyone's a winner" mentality. What does that teach? I mean, I know they are teaching that it isn't all about winning, I know that, but at the same time, going to the extreme opposite is just as bad. Now people just don't know how to lose. It's no wonder so many are on some kind of anti-depressent and kids are committing suicide. They have no coping skills. One bad thing happens, and it is 'the end of the world'.

[excon]

"Everyone's a winner" mentality. What does that teach?

Hello a:

Thanks for your thoughts..

It sends the absolute wrong message. In the real world, it IS all about winning. To suddenly find that out would be quite distressing..

excon

[Schoolmarm97]

Excon, it's a problem even to the extent that an entire industry has grown up around consulting firms geared strictly to helping employers cope with the level of entitlement this generation feels. I attended some workshops when I was still teaching high school, and they were geared to trying to break through that "everyone wins" mentality that alkalineangel cited. These kids were graduating with the firm belief that they were amazing, wonderful, perfect and didn't need to follow the "antiquated" rules of politeness and the path to success that we elders took--hard work and loyalty. Employers couldn't deal with the onslaught of applicants who were more interested in their pay scale than what they'd have to do to earn the money, and their loyalty extended only as far as the next higher-paying job they found advertised. Their demands were many, their skills few, and their willingness to put shoulder to wheel non-existent. "Career" came to mean a five-year stint before changing not just jobs but entire work paths. A couple of years ago, the NY Times reported a survey showing that the average male changed careers (not jobs) six times before he was 40. Compare that to my generation and my parents' who thought of the workplace as a second home and the success of the business as our success.

Of course, that's not a blanket description of ALL of GenX or Gen Me or of all of us older types. AA, you obviously are the exception that proves the rule. I have been on the outs with parents, fellow teachers, and 4-H and other club leaders who honestly believe that No Child Left Behind meant that the kids didn't have to do anything to earn their passage. What a disaster! Helicopter parents are doing a fine job of protecting their kids from success. And where will that leave us as a nation twenty years from now?

[talaniman]

At no time since I can remember have we as a nation and a people been told we can't do this, we can't do that, or heard the sky is falling as much as some in my generation has. There are some with power and resources telling us we are dumb lazy arses who feel entitled and want things for free.

They are lying, and just want to paint some as stupid, so we can be ignored and we can go back to being told when to piss, and where. It's a WAR, no doubt, on many fronts by some very smart people who are afraid of losing what they have stolen at our expense. You didn't deserve it in the first place right? That's BS!!

The challenge as I see it is the GENX generation going to listen to the noise, and believe it, or will they take a stand and push the line? Will they stand up for themselves??

Sure things have changed, as they do for every generation, but the challenge is the same, can you do your own thing, or do the thing you are being told to do?

If you don't, then you never will, and they will tell you anything. So we all have to stand for something, believe in something, or we fall for anything they tell us. I don't expect this new generation to be perfect, but I do expect them to keep pushing for something to leave the NEXT generation. Doesn't matter where you come from, or what they taught you, just what you do. Will you make some noise, or be drowned by it?

You young guys don't have to win, just keep fighting. Don't listen to the noise that says you are lazy, stupid, spoiled, and can't win. If you do, you lose, and if you quit, you are the loser.

[tomder55]

Your rant flys in the face of all the evidence. They are being conditioned to be dependents ,and we should not be surprised when they act like one.

[excon]

your rant flys in the face of all the evidence. They are being conditioned to be dependents ,and we should not be suprised when they act like one.

Hello tom:

They're not dependent. That's right wing spin. They're un-prepaired. What do YOU think no child left behind means? It means the ones who SHOULD have been left behind weren't. Well, they're being left behind NOW.

excon

[tomder55]

Well I certainly won't defend a signature Teddy Kennedy legislation.

[talaniman]

No rant, just an observation, and a hope they don't listen to those that berate them, and want them to take less than what they deserve, because in FACT, though they are unproven, and inexperienced, they will learn and grow as you did, and I too!

Oh that's right! You righties are perfect, and have no room to grow. Sorry I forgot that! How could I forget its your way, or no way!! That's the problem, you guys are stuck on yourselves.

[tomder55]

They are unprepared because the government does everything except wipe their butts... oh yeah ,and educate them despite the massive amts of resources devoted to education.

[Wondergirl]

They are unprepared because the government does everything except wipe their butts.... oh yeah ,and educate them despite the massive amts of resources devoted to education.

Actually, it has been the parents who have done everything for them including wiping their butts. When the losing team gets a trophy because it wouldn't be "fair" to allow the winning team to get the only trophy, when a two-year-in-a-row science fair winner is told he can no longer participate in the science fair because he has to give someone else a chance to win, when parents are in frequent cell phone/texting contact with their college-student children, when teachers change answers on tests and inflate grades to help the students feel successful, when parents copy their kids' handwriting/printing so the homework turned in is the parents' efforts (so their darlings will get a better grade), it falls to the adults to wake up and smell the coffee.

[talaniman]

They are unprepared because the government does everything except wipe their butts.... oh yeah ,and educate them despite the massive amts of resources devoted to education.

Well not everyone is born knowing how to wipe there own butts, or can afford to pay someone to do it for them. But a 22 year old coming out of college should at least have an opportunity to show what he has learned and the expectantion of affording toilet paper to wipe his own butt.

If he doesn't listen to the noise that says he can't, so don't try. Don't be so tight, when the kids need a roll here and there until they can get there own. They can do there own wiping!

[tomder55]

Actually, it has been the parents who have done everything for them including wiping their butts. When the losing team gets a trophy because it wouldn't be "fair" to allow the winning team to get the only trophy, when a two-year-in-a-row science fair winner is told he can no longer participate in the science fair because he has to give someone else a chance to win, when parents are in frequent cell phone/texting contact with their college-student children, when teachers change answers on tests and inflate grades to help the students feel successful, when parents copy their kids' handwriting/printing so the homework turned in is the parents' efforts (so their darlings will get a better grade), it falls to the adults to wake up and smell the coffee.

Fully agree .and the only illustration we need is the Easter Egg hunt that was cancelled due to bad behavior by the parents.

[paraclete]

I know Tom will think this is a rant, but you sow the wind and you reap a whirlwind. For too long you have told yourselves how wonderful you are, and you believed it, so what are the gods of the Earth entitled to, everything. Now you are saying how did this happen to us.

Yes the kids think they are entitled to employment, to a college education, to suck on their parents teat forever

[cdad]

I believe the missing link in most of the young people today is gratitude. It seems to be sorely lacking. They younger generation has privileges that most of us never dreamed of. In part the responsibility of technology hasn't been handled well. Children today are being given everything and when they grow into adults the don't think the gravy train should stop. There is just no gratitude. How many times lately are we answering questions about children thinking of collage and the expectation that the parents are going to pay for it? Look at how child support laws have changed to reflect that attitude. It is insane to not have earned your way. Too much emphasis is being given to feelings and not enough is given to morals and how they fit into this world. Its anything goes.

[Schoolmarm97]

Talaniman, I'm not a right-wing anything. I'm an Independent and a retired teacher who watched this shift happen over the period from 1971 when I got my first job to 2006 when I retired. This is not spin; it's not propaganda; it's the unvarnished truth.

In 1971 and on through the 80's, I saw parents supporting the schools' efforts and working with their children to be responsible and independent. Toeing the line was the rule, not the exception, and the kids excelled.

Then a change happened. Starting in the early 90's we had a series of Presidential Education Initiatives that no one outside of education even knew about, but one by one they undermined the work ethic of the students. At the same time the self esteem movement took hold and parents went out of their way to make sure their kids felt good about themselves by avoiding letting them feel the harsh lash of failure. By the late 90's I had students whose parents wouldn't let them do homework (or did it for them) because they "need their social time". This came with poor excuses for laxness and parents threatening to sue if grades weren't changed to reflect how wonderful their kids were despite the total lack of input from said children. When a parent calls a high school English teacher to say that her child should be given extra time to finish a paper because said parent didn't have time to type it or hadn't finished the research (no, that's not a joke or an exaggeration), there's a problem.

I don't know which generation you belong to, but I can assure you that we Baby Boomers were told flat out that we needed to hoist ourselves by main force without support or aid in the majority of cases. We were definitely told that we couldn't do things that we couldn't afford to do. We were told that without a good education, we would be doomed, and education came at a price that we had to be prepared to pay because no one was going to step in an save us if we failed. We did not get ribbons and awards for "participation". We had to earn our bragging rights.

Your stance is so familiar to me, it's actually painful. I heard it over and over from parents and students, particularly in the last couple of years before I called it quits because I didn't feel like I was making headway. There's ample research and a car load of articles available if you want to do some searching. Try Googling "trophy children" and "helicopter parents" for starters. The irony in all this is that young people are suffering from depression at a sadly growing rate because while they're being expected to become someone special in the real world, they're not being given the tools to accomplish that. Believe me, it's not a happy situation.

[Schoolmarm97]

Califdadof3, the kids don't know they should be grateful! That's what's missing. They're learning that whatever they're getting is what they fully deserve. You described the situation to a T.

Wondergirl, you're right on the money, as usual! The government didn't do this. Parents did. I could go on at length about how the transformation happened, but it gives me a headache. LOL

[excon]

Too much emphasis is being given to feelings and not enough is given to morals and how they fit into this world. Its anything goes.

Hello dad:

So, is this generation pissed at me for getting my SS and Medicare?

excon

[tomder55]

Ex , we all will have a lot to worry about when they assume the reigns of power. SS and Medicare are in many ways (due mostly to the deception on how the systems are structured ) generational theft. Pay back will be a B ***h

[cdad]

Hello dad:

So, is this generation pissed at me for getting my SS and Medicare?

excon

Not yet they aren't pissed. But the day may come. They don't understand that Social Security is something that you already paid into. Its not a free ride with exception to SSi.