[CrazyDaisyLou]

Sorry if I go on too long, I just want to make sure all the information I need is in this post.

In the beginning of January, a friend of mine gave me 6 fish. They are Zebra Cichlids. I had a ten gallon aquarium. One of them had babies at the end of January, so I got another ten gallon aquarium because I can't afford anything bigger at the moment, and stuck the other five fish and a pleco in it and left daddy fish and the babies and a pleco in the first tank. Daddy fish was chasing mommy fish, thought he was going to kill her so I moved her. There are at least 30 babies left. About a week and a half ago, the water got extremely cloudy, so I did a 50% water change, then three days later I did another 50% water change, but have not done one in the past week. The water has gotten worse, you can't see past two inches in it.

I think it's green, so it might be extreme algae growth?? Does this sound right?? Or could it be because there are so many fish in the tank?? The tank is near a window, but there is a curtain on it, and I have no where else to put the tank. Would one of the plastic window things with the ocean scene work to keep out the sun or should I get cardboard or something like that and tape it to the tank?? Is there something else it could be? I know it's not because of the items in the tank. I have the same things in both tanks (except the filters are different) and the second tank is clear. First tank filter is a Whisper 10-30i, not sure about second tank, filter was given to me. What do I need to do to clear it up? I am getting frustrated because I don't know what to do. I am using some spring water and some tap water in the tanks.

Also, I got these test strips from Jungle to test the Nitrate, nitrite, PH, Hardness, and alkalinity.

Tank 1: nitrate:20 nitrite:0 PH:6.8 alkalinity:0 Hardness:??

Tank 2: nitrate:40 nitrite:0 PH:6.8 alkalinity:0 Hardness:??

I'm not sure about the hardness because the color came out gray, and the color choices are green, brown, and orangish, but if I had to pick one, it was closest to the green which would be 25. I bought Tetra easy balance to put in and it didn't change anything. I tested before I put it in and 24 hours after I put it in. I also have TetraAqua AquaSafe. Are any of these numbers wrong, and what do I need to do to change them? Is there anything else I should be checking for and need to know?


Thanks for any responses. I am getting anxious because I am afraid that they are going to start dying off if I don't get it fixed.


CrazyDaisyLou

[AKaeTrue]

Don't worry, algae isn't going to harm your fish.
Your cloudy green water is an algae bloom (free floating algae). They feed on the nitrates. A little algae destroyer will take care of it. Follow the directions precisely. It may take a few days to clear up, so don't be alarmed if it does not immediately take effect - give it time to work.
If the tank must stay by the window, regular use of the algae destroyer along with 10% weekly water changes to keep nitrates low (their food source), will keep it under control - just make sure you don't over treat, overdose your tank, or do large water changes.
The decorative backing will help to block out some of the sunlight, but it alone will not prevent algae blooms (however it will help with the amount produced)

Your tank is not showing signs of pollution, your readings are good. That indicates that the bio-filtration your tank has built up is handling the amount of fish inside the tank. What ever you do, don't over clean your tank out of desperation to clear it up. Even though you have an algae bloom right now, the fast growing baby fish may set off a bacterial bloom. This will also cloud the water whitish or grayish. Don't be alarmed, this is just the beneficial bacteria within your tank compensating for the extra load of waste in the water and it will clear up on it's own.
Also, smaller filters sometimes do not come with bio-wheels or bio-sponges that are home to the beneficial bacteria within the tank. Does yours happen to have these? If not, I suggest for you to purchase the sponges (they are black and you will need to cut it to fit the filter). This way you will never disturb the beneficial bacteria colonies that keep the tank healthy. If you need more info on this, I don't mind explaining
So you have very, very soft tap water correct? In your case, it is better to use treated tap water instead of adding spring water. Spring water is good to use when one has hard tap water and is keeping fish that require softer water.
African Cichlids are very hardy fish and can live happily in the readings that your aquarium tests are reading.
In nature they live in very hard water. Pet stores sell African Cichlid salts and water treatments to create a natural hard water environment for the fish. Boy does it really bring out their magnificent colors too. If you decide to go this route, the change should be done slowly and always kept up with. If there were ever to be an abrupt change in the dissolved minerals in the water, your fish could die.
I accidentally had this happen to me when I was newly into fish keeping while making a rather large no,no of a water change and forgot to add the salt back into the water - 17 died all in a matter of 5 minutes. So, if you decide to go that route, you will see the colors of your fish become brighter, but it must be kept up with.
African Cichlids also need more space, especially when they are older. They will be too big for a 10 gal and they will also kill one another. They are the most aggressive tropical aquarium fish you can buy. It would benefit you and your fish to save a little so that you may one day put them in a bigger tank.
Also, Daddy would have killed Mommy had you not moved her. She is only of use to him when spawning. Daddy Cichlids (most of them anyway) tend to, care for, guard, and protect their offspring with their lives. However, watch out because as the babies get bigger and older, he too will kill them/eat them as they will also kill each other fighting for territory.
I'm afraid to also say that not all your babies will survive in the 10 gallon... You sound like you really care for your fish and are doing every thing you can, but unfortunately it's just not enough space.
I have 2 older Zebra males (a blue and a yellow) in a 55 gallon aquarium and that's still not enough space for them as they spat every now and then over territory. However, they must live there with each other because they just don't get along with any of the other Africans in any other tanks. They are killing machines. You come across these extra, extra aggressive Africans from time to time and they will take out a entire community if not separated - just something to watch for...
If you need anything else or have more questions, I'm always here to help.
Kae

[CrazyDaisyLou]

Thank you for getting back so quick. I know that my top tank has a bio-sponge, since you described what it is, but my bottom tank does not, so I will go to see if I can find one for it.

Actually, I do have another question. How old do the babies need to be before they leave the tank? My brother wants a couple (YEAH!! ), and I thought they would be okay to go now, but he thinks they need to wait longer. I was also thinking that when they get bigger I would see if a local pet shop would want some. Do you think that would be a good idea? Or would it be better to keep them all?

Thanks you.

CrazyDaisyLou

[AKaeTrue]

Yes, your babies can go to a new home now. Just remember, these fish are very aggressive and only do well if kept with other African Cichlids (they will kill other more peaceful fish). They may leave your pleco alone, but my own personal experience with adding algae eaters to a Cichlids tank proved fatal.

Pet shops in my area will only except a Cichlids for resale if it's about an inch long, anything under is not excepted or is fed as bait. You may want to check with the shop itself to find out what their policies are.
Keeping them all could cause you to lose a lot of them unless you get bigger tanks.
Sometime people who work at the pet shops give them homes or know of people who will.

I failed to mention above that there are several species of African Cichlids that have been unscientifically labeled "zebras" in pet shops/fish stores.
Some are mouthbrooders, which means the female will hold her eggs in her mouth until they hatch. Then occasionally she will scoop up her young inside her mouth when they are very small to protect them. At this time, she would be the one running off the male and defending the babies herself. The males are the ones with the egg spots on their anal fins - that is only if these are the ones you have.
What do they look like?
Kae

[CrazyDaisyLou]

The following link has a picture of what mine look like. I have two bigger ones that looks like the second picture of the white/pink fish, and three bigger ones of the first picture of the striped ones. I can see a couple of the babies are already striped and a couple are white/pink.

colorful tropical fish pictures,Convict Cichlid , Cichlasoma nigrofasciatum

[AKaeTrue]

Boy, I'm so glad I asked!! These fish are South American Convict Cichlids NOT Africans. Scratch everything I said about using African Cichlids salts and water treatments... YOUR WATER IS PERFECT FOR THESE FISH - THEY LOVE SOFT WATER...
Unfortunately it seems like every fish that bares strips gets called a Zebra for a common name... The white/pink ones are Albino Convict Cichlids. The Convicts can be pretty mean toward one another as you've already noticed with the male, but they are not as aggressive as the Africians... And Convicts don't get as large either...
I'm so sorry for not making the connection or asking eairler...
Your doing good though!!
And your babies are still able to leave the tank when ever you'd like...
The Oscar in the picture over to the side is also a South American Cichlid.
Keep up the good work!!
Kae

[CrazyDaisyLou]

Thanks so much. I understand it's easy to mix them up when you don't see them, just get a description. Is that Oscar yours, or is it a picture you found?


CrazyDaisyLou

[AKaeTrue]

The avatar is a cute pic I found...
Big Mouth, my Oscar, doesn't behave well for nice head shots (LOL).
Here she is though, swimming in the corner of the tank. Her reflection makes her back end look split, but it's the only pic I have of her stored on the computer.

[CrazyDaisyLou]

She's so cute!! Is she done growing? How big will she get? I saw a couple small oscars recently that I liked the color of, but, obviously, I won't be getting any anytime soon.


I think my fish had more babies. Or else she pooped. I looked in the second tank and in the cave there are a bunch of small brown balls on the bottom and up the side. When I saw the first bunch they were starting to swim, so they didn't look like that.


CrazyDaisyLou

[AKaeTrue]

I think what you probably see is poop LOL
No, she's not done growing yet. These fish get massive in size (a little smaller in captivity though) They get around 12 -15 inches long, 6 - 8 inches tall, 3 - 4 inches wide and can reach 5 pounds. They can live to be 30 years old too... Kind of cool.
When I was 17 years old (30 now) I was in a pet shop and saw these 2 huge massive fish that really caught my eye. I asked the owner about them and they were 25 year old Oscars. Their owner had past away and his children took the fish to the pet shop because they didn't know what to do with them... It blew my mind that those fish had been on this earth longer than me... I always loved them after that.
How are your babies doing?

[CrazyDaisyLou]

My babies are doing good. A lot of them have their stripes already. I put algae killer in last night and already you can see through it better. WOOHOO!! I thought maybe she had babies again because every time another fish comes near the cave, she chases them away, and she is the one who usually runs, not chases. Do you think if I take the cave out I would have less of a chace of having more babies? Would it make a difference?

Wow, that is big. When your Oscar is fully grown, what is the smallest size tank that she will be able to fit in? I've heard one inch of fish per gallon, so does that mean a 20 gallon tank would be big enough, or would it have to be bigger still? Would smaller fish be okay with her or will she eat them for breakfast?

I know, I ask a lot of questions!! :P

Daisy

[AKaeTrue]

That's great news about your tank and your babies. Do you have fry food (baby fish food) to feed them or Cichlid flakes that you can crumble for them to eat? It will really boost their growth. They should be eating several times a day as well.
The one inch one gallon rule is true, but fish on the massive side like Oscars need extra consideration. When measuring big fish, you have to measure all their inches (height, length, and width)
The smallest size tank for an adult Oscar is 55 gallons. This is because they need the height and length that the larger tanks offer. You can keep 2 Oscars in a 55 gallon, but you cannot keep one Oscar in a 25 gallon because the length and height of the tank in not sufficient.
I have Big Mouth alone in a 55 gallon, but not by choice...
Oscars form breeding pairs. This means they pick their mate for life. They form a strong bond with each other and they will stay together for the rest of their lives.
Last year Big Mouths companion died during a tank catastrophe. My family was on vacation and our power had gone off. When the power came back on the filters on their tank failed to start back up. Oscars are extremely dirty fish and need triple the filtration per gallon of water. The water became too polluted and he died as a result. She almost did too, she was still alive when I got home, but it took her a week to recover.
Every effort to introduce another Oscar has failed so far. She's very lonely and sad, but will not except another fish.
I usually don't keep Oscars this long. I raise breeding pairs then sell or trade them. I've raised 2 breeding pairs before her. She's an exception. I'm hoping that she's young enough to hopefully accept another fish one day. I have gotten rather attached to her though.

Oscars will eat anything that will fit inside their mouth. Like other Cichlids, they are also caring parents, but will snack on their babies from time to time once they get bigger.
I had a young Oscar once that swallowed a Red Devil Cichlid. Since that happened, I've never put any other fish with them.

Convicts love having the security of caves. They like having the territory to claim and hide in, it makes them happier fish... They make a home out of them, so it's good to leave the caves.

I don't mind the questions... I love talking about fish:D
Kae

[CrazyDaisyLou]

I'm sorry to hear about your Oscar dying last year. :( Good luck with finding another mate she will accept. :D How do you tell the female Oscars from the males? Can you tell in some way with most fish, or are most just making a good guess? I know how to do it with the Convicts that I have, because they had babies. Someone told me one time that Oscars never stop growing and eventually there wouldn't be a tank big enough for them so you would have to get rid of them (kill it). I thought that was kind of odd. Why would you sell or buy a fish like that? I said to myself. That would be a very hard thing to do, especially for people who get very attached to their pets. You said about them needing triple the filtration. How do you do that? Lets put it this way, I am imagining three 55 gallon filtration systems hanging from the tank.

I am crumbling the flakes for my babies, but if you think that getting fry food would be better, I will go get some. And I have only been feeding them once a day, but I will up it now to at least twice.

I sure am glad you love talking about fish!! ;)

Daisy

[AKaeTrue]

Female and male Oscars look just alike. You can't tell the sex of an Oscar by looking at it until it's about the size of Big Mouth. You can tell by the size of their breeding tubes that slightly protrude when they are bigger. The females is slightly larger around than the males. In fact, last year (actually, it was the summer of 2005 now that I think about it, so it's been a little longer than a year) when the male fish died, I had no idea if it was the male or female. All I knew was that they had paired up and I had a male and female.
You buy 5 young Oscars (chances are you'll have male and female this way) and keep them together in a large tank so you can watch their behavior. You watch a lot of chasing, lip locking, and fighting (male and female). Some of it is genuine fighting between 2 males and some of it is testing between male and female (whether or not they are worthy of one another). Then one day you notice 2 of them sticking up for one another, swimming together, and chasing the others away.
Then you sell or trade the others...
The only exception to this is if you happen to get all females. When there is no males in the picture, female Oscars will buddy up like best friends and will appear to be a pair. Getting 5 "usually" insures that you have both sexes.
The first time I ever bought Oscars, I only bought 2 (I wasn't doing the breeding pair thing). They always got along, so I thought I just got lucky with getting a male and female... Well, as they got older, their breeding tubes (which I knew nothing about at the time) looked just the same. They also never tried to mate, fight over territory like 2 males or anything. Come to find out, they were 2 females.

They really do get to big for a 55 gallon. It's doable, but I feel it's just mot enough room. I'd compare it to me being locked in a bathroom all day every day... just not enough room...
My two females went to live with a guy that worked at the fish shop that had a 250 gallon set up because I felt bad for them.
In the wild they get much larger and wild caught ones will out grow every common household tank. It's sad that some chain stores, to save a few bucks, will catch these fish from the wild when there are many, many breeders out there to buy from instead. The ones breed in captivity have been breed to be smaller - the size I mentioned above.
Unfortunately, there are fish that have not been breed smaller for sell on the market like the Red Belly Pacu and Black Belly Pacu's. This is very saddening to me. In the state that I live in, the waters are searched on a regular basis to find and remove these large fish that people have dumped out because they destroy the ecosystem (poor things, it's not their fault).
No one selling these fish are going to tell you the whole truth...
Here's a pic of their size and their teeth,



Sad Right? It's no wonder people kill them and dump them in lakes and rivers. Imagine your cute little fish turning into that... They just shouldn't be sold...

Triple filtration: You could use three 55 gallon hang on back or just use filters for larger tanks. I use two 80 gallon filters. I could only use one of them right now because it's just her, but I leave it on because it helps me out with less maintenance. I do all of my tanks that way (LOL)... The less work the better:D.

The crumbled flakes are the same thing as fry food. Fry food is only necessary to buy if you feed pellets which is to hard for them to eat. I have seen young cichlid pellets too, but they are to big for babies the size of yours. But you have flakes, so it's all good;)!!

Your little babies were probably snacking on the algae that is now dying off (don't worry, it's better to remove the unsightliness than to leave it) It just means you need to keep them full. Instead of feeding 2 large meals a day, where most of the food may get wasted, feed at least 3 times and more if you can. At the same time put a few whole flakes in there for the adult fish too because you don't want it to get hungry and look at the babies for a snack.

I love talking about fish and hearing about other peoples fish, I just love the hobby:D How do you like it so far?

Kae (sorry, I know I may ramble a bit)

[CrazyDaisyLou]

That is sad that someone would do that. :( It's horrible. To me that is like taking one of my cats because he or she got bigger than the normal size, killing it and throwing it in the trash. There are at least three of them bigger than normal. I could never do it. I would chop off my right hand first. (By the way, I have 14 cats, not exactly by choice though.) They are not really bothering with the fish. I am surprised by that. I thought I'd be chasing them off the tank 24/7, but it's only once in a while.

I love learning new things. The only reason I don't go back to school (I'm 25) is because, besides money, I get bored easily, and if I have to learn about one subject for years, I think I'll go mad. I am really enjoying learning about the fish. And taking care of them. It's so easy (except when I freak out because I don't know what happening) when you know what you are doing. I've never had an easier pet to take care of.

I will have to keep in mind what you said about the Oscars, just in case I ever get any. (Although, with these fish and cats of mine, it doesn't seem likely anytime soon.) From what you said, I think I would enjoy them a lot.

I have heard that plecos like to eat vegetables (especially cucumbers). Is that true? I have been giving the one in the bottom tank one algae wafer every day, but nothing to the ones in the top because of the algae problem. I bought a cucumber to cut up for them, but never got around to giving it to them because I wasn't sure how much to give. They are still only about three to four inches long.


Daisy (you can ramble all you want!! :p )

[AKaeTrue]

14 cats, oh my goodness:D Maybe you can give me pointers on them LOL! I have 4, and let me tell you, they destroyed my furniture, so the 2 culprits had to go outside. We installed a kitty door in the garage door, now their destroying my garage... I had them neutered, but those little buggers are still peeing everywhere... They have a scratching pad, but the cushion to my husbands weight bench is much better obviously. Every window screen that they could reach has been clawed to shreads... They're driving me nuts... LOL, oh, and heavens forbid you leave your car window cracked, they jump in and make a big mess... This really bad behavior came about so suddenly and I don't know what to do about it.

I have no idea about the cucumbers. I know that goldfish and some Cichlids like them, but I'm not sure about the plecos... Can't hurt to try. Let me know how it goes...
I know the algae wafers are good for them because it has vitamins in it that they need.
I had plecos once upon a time and I fed them the wafers. They never really did a great job at cleaning up the algae though LOL...
They're suppose to get huge too, but I had one for 6 years and he only got to be around 6 to 7 inches long and never grew any bigger. I have seen some big ones in pictures though.
I have a few tanks that look a little empty. I was thinking about adding to them today. I guess I'll be taking a trip to the fish store... I'll let you know what I get...
Any ideas about what's going on with my cats? They were strays that I took in. 1 is a little over 6 months old and I just had him neutered 2 weeks ago, the other is about 8 months old and he was neutered 6 weeks ago.
The cutie pie that behaves the worst is in the avatar pic with "his mommy". We found him when he was way to young to be without a mother, he took up with our dog... LOL
Kae

[CrazyDaisyLou]

I don't know what to tell you about the scratching, most of my cats do that too, and they too have a scratching post. I have taken to carrying around a water pistol or water bottle and squirting them whenever they do something wrong, but then you take the chance that they will get scared of you or hate you for life. As for the peeing, if the scent of a cat or any animal from any previous owners/renters are in your car/house, you will have problems for life. They will spend their lives trying to get rid of the scent of the previous owners animals by peeing and spraying. I, too, have this problem with my cats. :p They have very sensitive noses and will always be able to smell that scent that they feel shouldn't be there. I have tried different things, but nothing seems to work. I used this stuff called nature's miracle, or something like that, and my brother loves it, says it's the best thing ever made, but whenever I use it, they just go back and pee where I sprayed it. It feels like a never ending cycle. :rolleyes: Cats who are originally outside will automatically be wild, and that makes a difference too. Or if you ever have inside cats and let them outside for a few months for some odd reason or another and then brought them back in, they will also be wild. Wild cats have a natural tendency to scratch anything they can get their claws into. Also, males have a natural instinct to mark their territory. Good luck getting them to stop, and if you find out the secret, please let me know. I would really appreciate it. :D That is a very cute picture.

I will definitely try giving the plecos a cucumber sometime. I heard they get up to two feet AFTER I bought THREE of them!! I told my brother that when he gets his tank set up he won't have to buy a pleco! All he has to do is come over to my house and tell me which one he likes the most. :D And even if they don't clean up the algae very well, they're still cute. I love the designs on them.


Daisy

Oh, yeah, those little brown balls in the second tank, are DEFINITELY babies. They were moving around today, and I could see tails on a couple of them. Someone said that I should open up "Daisy's House of Fertility: If you want to get pregnant, spend five minutes at Daisy's." :D

[AKaeTrue]

WOW! That's awesome about the babies!
I wanted to pick up some fish yesterday, but the fish at the shop I went to looked sick... so I'll have to wait...
With the way your fish are breeding, your brother won't ever have to buy any LOL!
Kae

[CrazyDaisyLou]

That is true, very, very true. I don't think either of us will ever have to buy fish again. I never thought that within a month I would have babies twice. It leaves me speechless. :D

Sorry you couldn't get more fish. I was excited to hear what you would have gotten. Still am interested, when you get them.

If one panel of a tank is broken, is it possible to replace that panel with another one and then reseal it? Or wouldn't it work? I found a 20 gallon tank with one side panel cracked, and I'd hoped it was possible. I thought maybe with spring coming up, I might be able to buy another cheap broken one at a yard sale, or find a place that sells panels of glass or plastic. And I did have to reseal one of the tanks I am using now, so I know how to do that.

Thanks

Daisy

[AKaeTrue]

Sure, resealing an aquarium panel is very possible. You can get Lowe's to cut a piece of glass for you.
The only problem you might have with replacing a panel is where the two silicone joints meet. Dry silicone does not bond well to new silicone and could possibly spring a leek.
I'll definitely let you know what I get. I plan on doing more fish shopping around today... I'm really hoping to find a few healthy Leporinus...
Kae