[Billyf]

I drank two ginger ales (a pint each) with 2-3 drops of bitters in each on a Tuesday evening (about 10 pm-11 pm) and had a UA (probably EtG) on Thursday at 6 PM. So about 40 hours had passed. Should I expect a positive result? I had no idea that bitters contained any alcohol.

[DrBill100]

The amount of bitters noted would not be enough to create detectable levels of EtG for more than a few hours... probably less than 12 certainly no more than 24. So you should be in the clear.

Frankly, I wasn't aware of the alcohol content in bitters either, but it's from 45-47% I noted.

[Billyf]

Thanks for your response. I wonder how much "bitters" would create detectable levels? It doesn't seem like anything anyone could actually drink.

[DrBill100]

Well bitters at 45% abv is equivalent to 90 proof liquor. A shot (1.5 oz) of liquor will create EtG that is detectable for around 13-24 hours.

The bitters may have created EtG but the amount of EtG would spike to the level of detection within about 4-5 hours, if at all, and then rapidly decline and be eliminated.

Musshoff, studied the duration of small amounts of alcohol in food and beverages and found EtG was rapidly excreted.

Musshoff (2010)

[Billyf]

Got it. I was worried that a few drops of bitters was equal to a shot of liquor because of how small the bitters bottle is versus the size of a standard liquor bottle. I figured if the small bottle of bitters was 44.7% alcohol and a regular bottle of whiskey is 45% then the amount of alcohol concentrated in the little bitters bottle is enormous. I guess what I'm doing wrong is leaving out the by volume part (even though the bitters bottle doesn't say "by volume" whereas the liquor bottle does).

[DrBill100]

Got it. I was worried that a few drops of bitters was equal to a shot of liquor because of how small the bitters bottle is versus the size of a standard liquor bottle. I figured if the small bottle of bitters was 44.7% alcohol and a regular bottle of whiskey is 45% then the amount of alcohol concentrated in the little bitters bottle is enormous. I guess what I'm doing wrong is leaving out the by volume part (even though the bitters bottle doesn't say "by volume" whereas the liquor bottle does).

Right. In pure alcohol consumption your intake would be <3 g (a shot of whiskey is 13.7 g). So you will be fine.

[Billyf]

Sorry to keep bothering you with questions, but now I'm just curious about alcohol content. So would a shot of bitters (a very small bottle labelled as containing 44.7% alcohol) have about the same alcohol as a shot of whiskey (from a large bottle labelled as 45% by volume)?

[DrBill100]

Sorry to keep bothering you with questions, but now I'm just curious about alcohol content. So would a shot of bitters (a very small bottle labelled as containing 44.7% alcohol) have about the same alcohol as a shot of whiskey (from a large bottle labelled as 45% by volume)?

Yes. Bitters contain 45% alcohol. Expressed as a percentage 80 proof liquor contains 40% alcohol.

[Billyf]

Had another question I thought you might be able to answer. I had a UA test last night at 6 PM (haven't had any alcohol so not worried about that). I didn't drink a lot of water yesterday and when I went to give them a first sample, there wasn't enough. So I drank a bunch of water at their water cooler (maybe 5 or 6 small cone cups) and gave them a full sample a little over an hour later. I noticed that my second sample was much clearer than my first in color (not as yellow), and I was worried that it could come up dilute. I had a few cups of coffee in the morning, a falafel sandwich around noon, and a peanut butter and jelly sandwich at around 4, and, again, not much water throughout the day. Also, I'm a 38 year old, very thin guy and have a fast metabolism. Should I be worried? I even asked the counselor and she told me "everyone's different."

[DrBill100]

Probably won't influence the test. The cutoff for creatinine is .20 (+/- 20%) so in reality your urine can be pretty dilute and still considered in normal range.

The test involving the bitters... no problems?

[Billyf]

No problem with the bitters. Thanks for the peace of mind. The testing is nerve-wracking!

They're using a cut off .10, apparently, so it sounds like I'm even more in the clear. But if you don't make the .10 it's an automatic positive and you go back to court. I'm in for a dui diversion resulting from mixing alcohol with ambien. Lesson learned.

[Billyf]

Hi, Dr. Bill, I have a new question. I ate a piece of chocolate cake on Wednesday at about 10 pm. The entire cake may have include a teaspoon or two of vanilla extract (which apparently contains 35% alcohol). Again, I only had one slice of it. If I gave a UA sample the next day at about 7:30 PM, is it possible that the EtG test could come back positive?

[DrBill100]

Hi, Dr. Bill, I have a new question. I ate a piece of chocolate cake on Wednesday at about 10 pm. The entire cake may have include a teaspoon or two of vanilla extract (which apparently contains 35% alcohol). Again, I only had one slice of it. If I gave a UA sample the next day at about 7:30 PM, is it possible that the EtG test could come back positive?

No. You're right about the alcohol content but the amount, even if directly consumed, would be eliminated in that time. Additionally, the alcohol content that did exist would be greatly reduced (though not eliminated) by the baking.

You can eat all of the chocolate cake you want.

[Billyf]

Thanks so much. I thought that if it was a timeframe less than 24 hours there was danger of a false positive, but good to hear otherwise. This is such a nerve-wracking experience! (And I'm slightly neurotic).

[DrBill100]

Thanks so much. I thought that if it was a timeframe less than 24 hours there was danger of a false positive, but good to hear otherwise. This is such a nerve-wracking experience! (And I'm slightly neurotic).

You aren't at all misguided in your approach to this test. It is also apparent that you are taking exceptional measures to remain in compliance with the provisions of your diversion program.

Reviewing your questions, let me provide the following information. I would note that this is not applicable to those that have been drinking:

Very small amounts of alcohol, while creating EtG, will most often not rise to the level of detection (LOD). Even when an LOD might be achieved it will rapidly decline. So you need not continually live on the edge. Be careful within 12 hours of the test in matters of food stuff, inhalation, etc.

False positives because of incidental exposure are usually a matter of timing.

I notice that you don't drink a lot of water. So within that 12 hour period, or at least within 24 hours, drink at least 3-12 oz glasses water, nothing excessive, and make your last glass about an hour to an hour-and-half before the test. The point is to maintain normal hydration > avoiding concentrated urine that in this test can increase EtG readings by as much as 20 times.

This procedure will not lead to dilute specimen and will protect (in your case) against any possibility of false positive and allow you to live a normal existence in the absence of alcohol.

Any further questions that you have in relation to you and EtG please feel free to ask. It's is my pleasure to assist you.

[Billyf]

This is great advice and I'll do this to keep my mind at ease.

And just to be clear: the fact that I didn't drink a lot of water the day of my test isn't a problem because over 12 hours had passed since I had the slice of cake.

I assume that "concentrated urine" is urine with less water in it and that it's only potentially a problem if there is incidental exposure to alcohol within 12 hours of the test (since the water can help flush the tiny amount of alcohol from incidental exposure).

[DrBill100]

This is great advice and I'll do this to keep my mind at ease.

And just to be clear: the fact that I didn't drink a lot of water the day of my test isn't a problem because over 12 hours had passed since I had the slice of cake.

I assume that "concentrated urine" is urine with less water in it and that it's only potentially a problem if there is incidental exposure to alcohol within 12 hours of the test (since the water can help flush the tiny amount of alcohol from incidental exposure).

Your reasoning is sound enough.

Given the elements provided there is no possibility of EtG detection from eating the piece of cake, the whole cake, or directly consuming the amount of vanillia extract contained therein prior to reduction by heat.

[Billyf]

Hi, Dr. Bill,

So tonight is my last Diversion class. I'm a little worried about something and was hoping you could give me your thoughts. I used a hair thickening spray that contains "panthenol" at about 1:30 PM, not realizing that this is some kind of an alcohol. My test is around 6:30 PM. Should I be worried. I just sprayed it a few times on my hair and would imagine most of its blown out by now.

[DrBill100]

Hi, Dr. Bill,

So tonight is my last Diversion class. I'm a little worried about something and was hoping you could give me your thoughts. I used a hair thickening spray that contains "panthenol" at about 1:30 PM, not realizing that this is some kind of an alcohol. My test is around 6:30 PM. Should I be worried. I just sprayed it a few times on my hair and would imagine most of its blown out by now.

Billy,

What is the type test. Hair, blood or urine?

A hair test could, but probably not, pick up on the spray. None other would be influenced. If a hair test please advise of brand name and I'll research. Otherwise, you are fine and good luck to you.

Keep in touch.

[Billyf]

Thanks! It's either a regular UA or UA-EtG. I had read about all this "inhalation" stuff and false positives so was worried about that.