[Panda2112]

I have read through the many questions posted about ETG tests and understand that all the variables involved make it impossible to give an accurate answer. I guess I am just looking for something to put my mind at ease. Here is my situation:

I drank approximately 12 mixed drinks (vodka/Red Bull & Jack/Diet Cokes) on Christmas night over the course of about 6 hours. I had my last drink around 2am on Monday morning. I am a very healthy and active 44 year old male and a bodybuilder with a high metabolism. I am 5'11 and 214lbs with about 14% bodyfat. I workout 5-6 days a week and sometimes twice a day. I didn't work out Monday but did a morning and evening workout on Tuesday. 30 minutes of cardio each session and heavy weightlifting. I sat in the sauna both times and also consumed a gallon of water during the two workouts. In addition to the water I drank at least 7 diet green teas and about 7 diet cokes from Tuesday morning to today (Wednesday) at 1pm when I was tested. I should also add that I take creatine before/after my workouts and had about 20g yesterday.

Based on what I have told you, do you think I have a good chance of passing the test? I am guessing that if I do test positive it will be by a small margin. If it is a small margin, could one safely argue that it could be attributed to frequent use of a product containing alcohol, such as hand sanitizer?

[DrBill100]

From last drink until time of test was 59 hours? Do you know the cutoff of the EtG Test?

I want to come as close as possible in assessing your BAC, so please advise how drunk you felt after consuming 12 drinks. Also, do you frequently drink and about how much?
I'm not being nosey... these items relate to ethanol (EtOH) metabolism.

In advance I can tell you that based on standard calculation the time for elimination is too short. But your size and BMI pose some interesting questions in relation to EtOH.

As to whether you can argue, or someone will believe, incidental use is an unknown. Generally that isn't very effective as those interpreting the test know little about it and tend to view the results as positive or negative.

[Panda2112]

Thank you for your quick reply.

Yes, approximately 59 hours. I don't know the ETG test cutoff.

I was pretty drunk from the drinks I had as I only drink a few times a month and it is typically a few glasses of wine. I had some wine a few days prior.

But your size and BMI pose some interesting questions in relation to EtOH.

Can you explain this a little more?

[Panda2112]

I have also seen some comments regarding caffeine and the rate of ethanol (EtOH) metabolism. Would the Red Bull and diet coke mixers be to my benefit due to the high amount of caffeine?

[DrBill100]

EtOH after absorption distributes into body water. The larger the body mass and particularly muscle mass the greater the rate of distribution which equates to lower BAC. That influences how long it will take to reach BAC=0. That is important because so long as there is alcohol in your blood stream you are still producing EtG.

Your BAC at the time of last drink should have been in the vicinity of .11. Your subjective feeling of intoxication is just another method of approximating.

Your frequency of drinking is directly related to rate of metabolism. Heavy and frequent drinkers will often metabolize alcohol at twice the rate of infrequent low-intake drinkers (1).

From a BAC .11 you would have still had some amount of alcohol in your system for 6-7.5 hours*. That must be deducted from the 59 hours. Leaving an EtG clearance time of 51-1/2 to 53 hours.

Based on the sparse elimination literature available the median time for elimination should be 66 hours (median) but in a range of 40-78 hrs. That leaves you in an area where the flip of a coin is probably as valid as previous research.

If it is of any consolation, more and more tests with BAC far higher than yours have been returning negative. As noted, the research is vague and imprecise in addressing 5+ drinks. None of the studies dealing with BAC in excess of .10 consider size and BMI.

It would be my guess that at a cutoff of 100 ng EtG would be detected. Maybe not at 500 ng.

Please let us know the results.

*assumes EtOH metabolism between .015 (population ave) and .018 per hour. The rate at which you metabolize alcohol is related to specific liver enzymes and has little relation to Basic Metabolic Rate. As example, you can increase your heart rate, respiration etc but EtOH metabolism is rate limited to your liver enzymes and that varies from person to person.

1) Jones, AW, 2010

[Panda2112]

Thank you again for your information. I will be sure to let you know the results...

[DrBill100]

I have also seen some comments regarding caffeine and the rate of ethanol (EtOH) metabolism. Would the Red Bull and diet coke mixers be to my benefit due to the high amount of caffeine?

Don't believe it would. Caffeine has never been proven beneficial to alcohol elimination. The only product that has been proven to accelerate EtOH metabolism is fructose*. Bear in mind that alcohol elimination is what creates EtG and the elimination of EtG is a different process altogether.

* References for fructose effect.
1) Carpenter & Lee, 1937
2) Pawan, 1972
3) Onyesom, 2005

[Panda2112]

I checked a previous test and the threshold for ETG is 250

[DrBill100]

I checked a previous test and the threshold for ETG is 250

That is helpful, compared to 100. Some testing resources estimate that about 40% of all positive tests fall in the range of 100-250. (can't bring up that reference). Redwood Toxicology found that when re-testing samples positive at 100 using a cutoff of 250 detected 91%. (Rana, 2011 VS 05)

It is safe to say that the higher the cutoff and the more time from drink to test are the most influential factors.

Once again, you fall right in the middle of the items I outlined. Chances improved.

[Panda2112]

Can you give me the range of results and what they indicate? For example, if the cutoff is 250 and I test 230, would they question my usage or would that be "normal" and "acceptable" ? As opposed to if I tested 900? What is scale based on? Zero to ?

Thank you again for your insight.

[DrBill100]

Can you give me the range of results and what they indicate? For example, if the cutoff is 250 and I test 230, would they question my usage or would that be "normal" and "acceptable" ? As opposed to if I tested 900? What is scale based on? Zero to ?

Thank you again for your insight.

There are actually 2 values involved. Both are based on nanograms being parts per billion. Step 1 is an immunoassay (IA) using in this case 250 ng as a cutoff. If you had 230 ng in your system then it would simply show as negative. If you had 900 ng it would show positive. The IA does not quantify results. It is either negative or positive. If negative the test ends here. This phase of testing is not terribly accurate. It has an error rate of at least 15% and possibly much higher. In addition, at lower concentrations an error rate of plus/minus 20% is acceptable for IAs. (UNODC, Guidance, p. 11)

In the event of the latter then the positive IA result would be confirmed via a more precise instrument than can quantify. In the confirmatory test a printout would provide the exact amount of EtG/EtS in your system i.e. 846 ng/mL. This phase of testing is very accurate and reliable due to the quality of instrumentation. Errors at this level are rare except for improper calibration, maintenance or human error.

The numbers involved aren't a gradient scale but an actual count.

[Panda2112]

So it really isn't a matter of saying how much, or when you drank, just that you have? If I understand correctly, it could mean I had 12 drinks three days prior or one drink the morning of? Either way I am positive and that is all that matters.

[DrBill100]

So it really isn't a matter of saying how much, or when you drank, just that you have? If I understand correctly, it could mean I had 12 drinks three days prior or one drink the morning of? Either way I am positive and that is all that matters.

That is basically true. There is no method for determining amount of alcohol consumed based on an EtG test. It cannot, for instance, be used for assessing impairment such as blood or breath testing. Nor is it valid for extrapolating when alcohol was consumed.

The importance of confirmatory testing and quantifying the amount of EtG present is related to source of alcohol. Many agencies accept any reading under 1000 ng as resulting from incidental exposure. Not all however. In fact, most don't.

[Panda2112]

I wanted to let you know that I passed my test :) Thanks again for the information. I appreciate it very much and hope this may help others in the future.

[Dogsbestfriend]

Can you give me the range of results and what they indicate? For example, if the cutoff is 250 and I test 230, would they question my usage or would that be "normal" and "acceptable" ? As opposed to if I tested 900? What is scale based on? Zero to ?

Thank you again for your insight.

Good info!