[DarinB]

When we built our house three years ago, we had the basement roughed in for a bathroom. I had talked to the plumber at that time about what would need to be done in the future, but alas have forgotten completely... :)

Attached is a picture of the rough in prior to pouring the basement floor. The pipe to the left I assume is the vent stack - it now goes up to the floor joists, across the room, and ties into the main drain line. Middle is for the toilet, and the right side I assumed was for a bathtub/shower/etc. --- both of these are capped off. This is where I get confused...

My question is what do I do with the vent pipe - can I tie into it with a tee or something and drain the lavatory there (I'm assuming that this has to remain a vent)? Second, I also assumed that the drain to the right was there for a tub or shower - does that sound right, or am I all screwed up?

Out of the whole mess, the only thing I know for sure now is where the toilet goes... :(

Thanks... Darin

[speedball1]

Hey Darin,
What are the pipe sizes? Has the water pipe been roughed in as well or just the drainage?
You will cut in a 2 X 1 1/2" drainage tee in the left hand pipe 18" off the floor line to pick up your lavatory and the same pipe you cut into will vent the group. The stub up on the right should have a 2" "P" trap and picks up the tub or shower. However I came into a real problem when you said, " it now goes up to the floor joists, across the room, and ties into the main drain line". If the "main drain line" is a horizontal sewer line then the tie in is illegal and your group is unvented. Code dictates that you can not wash major fixtures, such as toilets past a unvented minor one such as a lavatory. But if the basement vent ties into a vertical vent stack ABOVE a major fixture then you may finish off your remodel. You have failed to tell me exactly what the basement vent ties into so until I know more this is as far as I can go. If you have more information we will pick it up from there. Regards, Tom

[DarinB]

<edit> Just noticed I blew right past a couple of your questions... sry about that!

The pipe sizes (I believe) are 2" for the two, and there's a toilet flange on the middle one - has instructions on it to tap the center ring lightly to break it out, etc...

The water supply was not roughed in - that much I can handle - just need to tap off the copper lines and run it over. I don't know about the rest, but I can solder my rear edge off... :D


I'm attaching another picture - ironically, in looking at it, it might have answered my questions without my realizing it. This pic is the main floor bathroom - the basement is essentially the same layout - vent (with sink drain tied in), toilet (with the same flange BTW), tub/shower. In looking at this, I see how the sink drain should tie in to the vent. Now I suppose the only remaining question is where does the vent tie in to the rest of the system in the basement - that I will verify tonight and post tomorrow.


Thanks for your help!!

Darin

[speedball1]

You do realize that while the toilet and tub is stationary you have options on the lavatory. You can come out of the vent with a 2 X 1 1/2" drainage tee and stub it out straight into the lav or you can run a arm off that tee 3' 6" to either side and ell out for a stub up. If you desire more room you could come off the vertical vent with a 2" drainage tee and arm out 5' and reduce down at the stub out with a 2 X 1 1/2" reducing ell. Let me know where the basement vent ties into. Cheers, Tom

[DarinB]

I knew I could move it, but not how far. As it turns out, where I put up the walls gives me just enough room for a corner sink - I'm custom making the cabinetry (I'm a woodworker, not a plumber... lol).

I took a gander last night and confirmed that the vent stack goes across the room and ties into the <drum roll> the vent system... thus confirming my memory is indeed completely gone. The only other issue (if you want to call it that) I have is the vent stack comes out of the basement floor about 6 inches away from the outside wall which is fine for the sink base, but messes up the corner above the sink. My thought is when I cut the PVC to put in the drain tee, I'll make a few bends so that I can run the vent inside the exterior wall. That leaves one final question - would I be breaking the rules by running the vent inside the wall next to the concrete foundation?

Beyond that, I think I'm all set...

Thanks for your help Tom..!

[speedball1]

Would these bends be in the vent or drainage pipe? As long as the vent is a dry vent you can run it any place you choose. Just remember to give it some slope back to the drain line. Good luck on your project. Tom,

[DarinB]

Hey Tom...

The bends would be in the vent pipe - up about 24" or so from the floor, 90 to the wall, 90 up, then 90 and a short splice to make up the 6" I lose by shifting over to the wall...



Thanks for all your help - I really appreciate it!!

[speedball1]

On the vent you may use vent ells that have a shorter radius then drainage ells.

[joeysteel]

So a foot from the wall to the center of the flang. That's what I thought but it didn't look like enough room. Thanks

[jherald]

Ok, I am also finishing my rough in. I am wondering how far the center of the toilet drain should be from the side wall to allow ample clearance of the bowl.

Also, what should I use to cut the toilet drain pipe as it is sticking up out of the floor about 18 inches?

One more. My sink drain is running horizontally at a 90 degree angle out of the main drain pipe. I don't know much about plumbing but shouldn't it be at an angle running down to allow gravity to pull the water down or will it drain properly into the main pipe?

Thanks and great forum. I'm glad that I found it.

James

[speedball1]

Hi James,
There is no mandated "wiggle room" for a toilet unless it's in a handicapped stall. What we do is try to center it in the space available in a typical bathroom. If the toilet stub up is PVC we cut it off flush with the floor with a Saws-All,(reciprocating power saw).

"My sink drain is running horizontally at a 90 degree angle out of the main drain pipe. I don't know much about plumbing but shouldn't it be at an angle running down to allow gravity to pull the water down or will it drain properly into the main pipe?"
Are you saying the laterial, (horizontal ) drain is flat without any fall or slope?
If it's a short piece it won't make much difference but it it's longer it needs 1/4" fall to the foot. Good luck, Tom

[PalmMP3]

One more. My sink drain is running horizontally at a 90 degree angle out of the main drain pipe. I don't know much about plumbing but shouldn't it be at an angle running down to allow gravity to pull the water down or will it drain properly into the main pipe?

The fact that you say "I don't know much about plumbing" tells me all I need to know to answer that. ;) To the untrained, non-plumber's eye it looks perfectly horizontal; however, if you look closely (preferably measure using a tape measure and level) you will se that it is actually a VERY slight slope - only 1/4" per foot, and in some cases as little as 1/8" per foot.

In real-world terms, that means that the sink could be 5 to 10 feet away, and yet the entire span would only slope a grand total of a little more than one inch. Now do you see why you didn't notice it? :p

[jherald]

Hey guys. This helps me out tremendously. Thanks.

How does everyone feel about E-Z Sweat pre-soldered copper fittings? I can solder but this seems to be a lot more quick and easier to work with.

[speedball1]

Hey James,
They can tack on the title, "Pre-soldered" if they wish but what it boils down to is that the fittings have been tinned on the inside. This may work for a DIYS er but it wouldn't be cost efective for a plumber water piping a house. You still have to apply heat from a torch and I like to rim and wipe my solder joints. Cheers, Tom

[PalmMP3]

I like to rim and wipe my solder joints.

Hey Tom,

I'm pretty new at soldering. What does "rim and wipe" mean? And while we're at any, got any useful soldering tips/tricks for me? ;) (I'll be using a Bernz-o-Matic MAPP torch)

Moishe

[speedball1]

Hey Tom,

I'm pretty new at soldering. What does "rim and wipe" mean? And while we're at any, got any useful soldering tips/tricks for me? ;) (I'll be using a Bernz-o-Matic MAPP torch)

Moishe

Good morning Moshie,

When I solder a horizontal joint I always run the tip of my solder around the rim of the fitting for a little added insurance. By taking a dry cloth and wiping the excess solder off you leave a shiny surface on the pipe that gives it a professional look. This is simply a cosmetic look and doesn't add or detract from the joints integrity. At one time I piped a entire house with a Bernz-O-matic torch. Mapp gas wasn't used when I was out in the field. As for solder tips you probably know most of them. Heat the fitting not the pipe, On a horizontal joint first put your flame on the bottom of the fitting and the tip of the solder on the top. When the solder runs on the top then the fitting's heated enough to run the tip of the solder all the way around. ALWAYS evacuate every bit of moisture out of a pipe that you're soldering. If not it will turn to steam and could blow out the solder joint leaving you with pinhole leaks. Measure twice and cut once. Ya got my best advice.
Cheers, Tom

[PalmMP3]

Thanks for the advice. Some qusetions, though:

At one time I piped a entire house with a Bernz-O-matic torch.

Just curious: how many cans of propane did it take (on average) to pipe an entire house? Also, if this was "at one time", what did you switch to later on instead?

On a horizontal joint first put your flame on the bottom of the fitting and the tip of the solder on the top. When the solder runs on the top then the fitting's heated enough to run the tip of the solder all the way around.

You mean you only heat the bottom - i.e. you don't swing the flame around to the top after a few seconds to heat it evenly?

How close should the burntip be to the joint? Should it be almost touching it, or should it be an inch-and-a-half away, or somewhere in between?

What about vertical joints - any specific tips?

Measure twice and cut once.

I'm not so sure I understand that one... can you please elaborate a bit?

Ya got my best advice.

Thanks, Tom. I really appreciate it when you give us mere mortals the benefit of your 50 years of experience. ;)

[speedball1]

Hi Moshie,

"Just curious: how many cans of propane did it take (on average) to pipe an entire house? Also, if this was "at one time", what did you switch to later on instead?"
This was a long time ago and my acetylene tank got too heavy to lug around so I bought a Berza-A- Matic torch. I didn't use a full tank of gas to water pipe a two story addition. I now uas a plumbers propane tank and torch which is much lighter then the old steel acetylene tank.


"You mean you only heat the bottom - i.e. you don't swing the flame around to the top after a few seconds to heat it evenly?"
No, I hold the tip of the solder on the upper part. When it starts to melt I know the rest is hot enough and I then run it around the joint so it flows evenly.

"How close should the burntip be to the joint? Should it be almost touching it, or should it be an inch-and-a-half away, or somewhere in between?"
I hold the burntip so that the flame is about 1/4" inch away from the fitting.

"What about vertical joints - any specific tips?"
I direct my flame to the bottom of the joint and hold the tip of my solder on the joint. When the solder begins to melt I know it will get to the bottom of the joint.

"Originally Posted by speedball1
Measure twice and cut once.
I'm not so sure I understand that one... can you please elaborate a bit?"

Old plumbers and carpenters saying. If you double check your measures you''ll only have to cut the pipe or saw the board once.
Cheers Tom