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Marega · Feb 8, 2007, 03:43 PM

I need to know if a elderly couple can get out of a reining lease due to a medical condition that does not allow or permit one to climb the inside stairs. They have a doctors write up stating such activity would endanger their health. They are both being put in assisted living and are OK giving up the security deposit but are not financially able to pay the remaining 6 months. They have lived there for 4 years and been good tenants.

landlord advocate · Feb 8, 2007, 05:30 PM

Originally Posted by Marega

I need to know if a elderly couple can get out of a reining lease due to a medical condition that does not allow or permit one to climb the inside stairs. They have a doctors write up stating such activity would endanger their health. They are both being put in assisted living and are ok giving up the security deposit but are not financially able to pay the remaining 6 months. They have lived there for 4 years and been good tenants.

Have you talked to the landlord? Is this an apartment complex or a single/double? What state? They could always attempt to find a tenant to replace them; however, the house or apartment probably needs painting.

Marega · Feb 8, 2007, 05:37 PM

Originally Posted by landlord advocate

Have you talked to the landlord? Is this an apartment complex or a single/double? What state? They could always attempt to find a tenant to replace them; however, the house or apartment probably needs painting.

They have and he's not pushing hard yet. They are sinking their money into a assisted living facility that can accommodate both of them. They are not that savvy at 83 to be anything but confused and approaching the stages of complete dependency. This is a 3 bedroom, upscale apartment in Birmingham Michigan. I highly doubt that there is damage or repair work.

Fr_Chuck · Feb 8, 2007, 05:45 PM

The assisted living is not a "rated medical" facility like that of a skill nursing center.

A landlord would only have to to do those accomidations that are reasonable and possible.

So while there are no laws that require him to release them, they may have to allow them to move to a ground level when available. Put in a ramp to a ground level, adapt a bathroom with rails.
If the property is supported though government funds, more could be done.

But really while a court may let them win because they feel sorry for the older people, courts will do that, but most likely they should be able to work out an arrangement, since they should be able to rent it out quickly

landlord advocate · Feb 8, 2007, 05:45 PM

Considering the length of tenancy, the apartment should be re-painted and the carpeting cleaned etc. Since this is an upscale apartment building, they are not going to want bad press. Management should not have a problem renting in early spring. Talk to them, I bet they'll settle for the security deposit to cover expenses and let them out of the lease.

Marega · Feb 8, 2007, 06:07 PM

Originally Posted by Fr_Chuck

The assisted living is not a "rated medical" facility like that of a skill nursing center.

A landlord would only have to to do those accomidations that are reasonable and possible.

So while there are no laws that require him to release them, they may have to allow them to move to a ground level when available. Put in a ramp to a ground level, adapt a bathroom with rails.
If the property is supported though government funds, more could be done.

But really while a court may let them win because they feel sorry for the older people, courts will do that, but most likely they should be able to work out an arrangement, since they should be able to rent it out quickly

They have fallen down the steps numerous times fortunately with out injury. This is a larger complex and neither can maneuver with out assistance anymore. The doctors will not allow him to drive and she doesn't. I am sure that even giving the security deposit and paying a cleaning/painting fee would be OK. But they are being asked to do that AND pay the remaining amount for the 6-7 months amounting to almost 9000.00. Where they are now going will be almost 3 times the rent till they run out of money. They don't want to be unfair but they don't want to be broke either. I think their kids are pitching in somewhat, but they also are going to have to take care of a older adult child with emotional disabilities that has no place to go.
Thanks everyone

Fr_Chuck · Feb 8, 2007, 06:10 PM

I do understand this, but please look from the business side, this illness unless it was just sudden was getting worst 6 months ago, 18 months ago and so on,

Before the signed a new lease this should have been considered.

While I do understand and deal with handicap people all the time, this condition does not just get them out of it by some law, it does give them some defense in court if the landlord sues them after the move.

Best bet try and get something in writing on an agreement to move out eary

Marega · Feb 8, 2007, 06:18 PM

Originally Posted by Fr_Chuck

I do understand this, but please look from the business side, this illness unless it was just sudden was getting worst 6 months ago, 18 months ago and so on,

Before the signed a new lease this should have been considered.

While I do understand and deal with handicap people all the time, this condition does not just get them out of it by some law, it does give them some defense in court if the landlord sues them after the move.

Best bet try and get something in writing on an agreement to move out eary

They had given the landlord notice in early Dec. and have started the moving process already. They should be out at the end of Feb. Due to there incapacities. I understand that it is a business deal and there are responsibilities on their part. But would there be any kind of insurance that would cover for this on either side? They have already sold off most of the things that has any worth and paid off other debt. They have been in good standing with this place so I will pass the negotiating info on.
Thanks

landlord advocate · Feb 8, 2007, 07:53 PM

An upscale apartment complex is not going to want bad press. If this complex is one of several owned by the same company, bypass the manager and go up the ladder. Yes, the apartment owners can get a judgment against them. That isn't going to serve a purpose. The owners have to appear to treat the couple the same as they would any other tenant. Explain to the powers that be. Suggest a by-out equal to the security deposit. If that doesn't work, please write again. I would like to follow this one to a happy ending.

excon · Feb 9, 2007, 06:59 AM

Hello Marega:

I would love to see this end happily too... But, I'm not optimistic.

Hopefully, the positive actions recommended here will have the desired effect. It IS the best course of action for everybody. However, it's been my experience that some small minded people may not see the bigger picture.

If that's the case, and you run into some resistance to your very reasoned proposals, do not cave. There ARE alternatives.

Look. I call myself what I do for a reason - not to scare you - but to put you on notice that my advice doesn't come from books. You should know that my history IS reflected in my advice... In the very first instance, that advice is grounded in the belief that, unless you're a soldier, you should NOT throw yourself on your sword...

In that vein, tucked in a corner in your very polite letters to management, should be the threat, that they won't go down quietly; that the press WILL be informed, and that they will fight them in court to their last breath!

If that doesn't work, I'll tell you how to get down and dirty with them (legally, of course).

excon

Fr_Chuck · Feb 9, 2007, 07:09 AM

No standard homeowners insurance is going to pay for this, if they have a disability policy or a long term care policy there may be some payment from it, just for the disablity or need for long tirm care but not a specific payment for this. And since it is not a business but a rental a business rent continuation policy would not apply.

Basically this is just one of those things where if the landlord is a nice person, and wants to do the MORAL thing, they will let them out with only a one or two month penalty. Since from a honest veiw point if they are currently fully rented, they should have a waiting list of people to move in. Now if they are setting there currently with a couple empty apartments, they are not going to be as easy to rent the apartment out.

It would not hurt them to talk and perhaps help advertise the apartment for rent and help find a renter to move in when they move out.

But just honestly they don't have to let them out of the agreement for this, is it morally right, of course not, but law has nothing to do with what is right or wrong it only has to do with what the law and the contract says.

If there is some clause in their actual contract ( and I doubt it) that allows them to move for medical reasons, then no problem.

And again it just depends on how much bad press the place wants, many places will take a small loss not to have bad press.

But try working nice first, and don't talk with a clerk at a office, find out who can make the real decission, and who can make it in 2 minutes, the owner, or the president of the management company, don't deal with the lower level people on this.

Marega · Feb 9, 2007, 07:10 AM

Originally Posted by excon

Hello Marega:

I would love to see this end happily too...... But, I'm not optimistic.

Hopefully, the positive actions recommended here will have the desired effect. It IS the best course of action for everybody. However, it's been my experience that some small minded people may not see the bigger picture.

If that's the case, and you run into some resistance to your very reasoned proposals, do not cave. There ARE alternatives.

Look. I call myself what I do for a reason - not to scare you - but to put you on notice that my advice doesn't come from books. You should know that my history IS reflected in my advice..... In the very first instance, that advice is grounded in the belief that, unless you're a soldier, you should NOT throw yourself on your sword.....

In that vein, tucked in a corner in your very polite letters to management, should be the threat, that they won't go down quietly; that the press WILL be informed, and that they will fight them in court to their last breath!

If that doesn't work, I'll tell you how to get down and dirty with them (legally, of course).

excon

Thanks... will try it without the "sharp edge" first... hopefully they can resolve it without drawing "blood" from any end.

ScottGem · Feb 9, 2007, 07:20 AM

A couple of points that haven't been covered. One is that they may be able to sublet depending on the lease terms. So if the landlord isn't willing to let them out of the lease, they have that option. Second, they could help by trying to find a replacement tenant.

But frankly I agree with advocate. Unless this is high vacancy area, the landlord stand to lose more by pursuing a case against this couple then by letting them go.

Marega · Feb 9, 2007, 07:26 AM

Originally Posted by ScottGem

A couple of points that haven't been covered. One is that they may be able to sublet depending on the lease terms. So if the landlord isn't willing to let them out of the lease, they have that option. Second, they could help by trying to find a replacement tenant.

But frankly I agree with advocate. Unless this is high vacancy area, the landlord stand to lose more by pursuing a case against this couple then by letting them go.

Thanks everyone for your help. I just happened to "surf" over this site and find it very helpful. I will keep you posted. A;though this is not my normal "advocate" calling, It helps to know there are others out there to call on. Blessings
M