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AK lawyer · May 25, 2011, 11:31 PM

Originally Posted by SmilingInside

... Also, will I be getting the officer's report so I can prepare for court? And if I AM wrong, can I retract my not guilty plea so I can avoid having to be in court and make a fool of myself?

You should request it in advance of the court date. I don't know NY specifically, but in many places the prosecution has the duty to disclose this kind of information, or at least if asked.

ScottGem · May 26, 2011, 03:18 AM

As far as I know your ticket is all the report that is filed. I seriously doubt if there is anything else filed by the police officer regarding the incident. Yes you should request it, but don't be surprised if they tell you there is nothing else.

SmilingInside · May 26, 2011, 10:42 AM

Yes, I know police usually say something when they pull you over. He DIDN'T! I was waiting at a traffic light, he was behind me, he lit me up just as traffic started moving. He offered no reason as to why he pulled me over, and as I said, I didn't ask. I was tempted to, but if I had then I'd lose all chance of catching him pulling me over for no reason. I'm from the school of "don't talk to cops", it can only HURT you, even in a traffic stop. I know EXACTLY why cops ask you that famous question "do you know why..", it's to easily and painlessly get you on record admitting to a crime. As in "do you know how fast you were going?"... if you know you were speeding, you typically give a semi-honest answer, less than you were actually going but still over the limit, thereby admitting to the offense and making his ticket virtually ironclad.

SmilingInside · May 26, 2011, 10:59 AM

Thanks for all the answers.

Scott Gem: On the ticket, you could either choose guilty or not guilty. If choosing not guilty, there was another item you could check requesting supporting deposition. I checked the box, so I'm assuming maybe that means any additional notes the officer made? There was no notes on the ticket, just the standard information-in NY it's a print-out ticket, not the old fashioned kind. If it means what I think it means, I wonder if they will send that report to me when they send me my court date? I will call them to find out, and perhaps I'll wait till I get this information as it SHOULD state why he pulled me over (?) and then go from there.

Everything else aside though. If he states a reason for pulling me over that is untrue or illegal, or states NO reason for pulling me over, then can I win the case or what? All the little details don't really matter to that question. Assuming he had no reason, is what I'm saying, can the tickets be beaten? I mean, if they can't even assuming that, then there's no point in looking further into it. That's ALL I really needed to know in the first place.

smoothy · May 26, 2011, 11:44 AM

Opinion?

Get the car inspected... and get proof of it. Take that to court... they usually dismiss that if its taken care of before the court date.

As far as the unpaid ticket/fine that got your driving privileges revoked. Pay it, whatever it is... petition to have the privileges restored using proof the debt has been paid in full. IF you can get that done before your court date... maybe they will dismiss that too.

Unless you do both of those you have two chances as I see it. Slim and none.

Try and argue with them about what your rights for being stopped are and aren't... and they are going to flex their muscles and make an example of you. And hang you on both. Just because they can.

Just like everyone tells you. Smile and be nice to the cop... save any disparaging remarks until you are in the next county and sure he can't hear you. Same applies to the Judge... try and tell him what the law is and he (or She) will take exception and you lose any chance of leniency.

Fr_Chuck · May 26, 2011, 05:15 PM

You may though request of evidence to get a copy of the police officers POST records,

Also yes there is almost always ( at least here in GA) also a incident report or at least a incident card written by the officer that he turns in to his department when he turns the ticket in.

Also there should be a voice recording at the dispatcher of any info he did on the stop.
*** not if they use the in car computer

SmilingInside · May 27, 2011, 10:28 AM

OK, so the officer only came to my window, I never got out of the car... interesting. So does he have a recording of that? I hope so...

SmilingInside · May 27, 2011, 11:13 AM

I think your tips are sound. Say I can't financially bring the car up to inspection-what if I should dispose of or sell the car? Is that just as good?

excon · May 27, 2011, 11:20 AM

Originally Posted by SmilingInside

I will call them to find out, and perhaps I'll wait till I get this information as it SHOULD state why he pulled me over (?) and then go from there.

Hello again, S:

I can't imagine you'll win... IF you didn't ASK why he pulled you over, you'll NEVER argue that he pulled you over WITHOUT probable cause... You haven't got the foggiest notion WHY he pulled you over.

Plus, I don't know what information you think you're going to get... Cops DON'T write a police report on tickets... The ONLY written item is the ticket itself. IF you didn't ask, he isn't required to report to anybody what his probable cause was... Yes, of course you can ask him in court... But, you have NO idea what he's going to say - NONE.

excon

SmilingInside · May 27, 2011, 11:32 AM

True, and I've thought of that... my thought was maybe he'd lie or be put on the spot and flub it... the scenario in which he pulled me over doesn't allow for much on his part, he was behind me, never in front of me, and it wasn't a long stretch of road, so...

SmilingInside · May 27, 2011, 11:33 AM

Oh, and if I'd asked him WHY he pulled me over, I'd be giving him a heads up so I didn't want to do that... that's why I didn't ask even though I was very curious and tempted!

excon · May 27, 2011, 11:43 AM

Originally Posted by SmilingInside

Oh, and if I'd asked him WHY he pulled me over, I'd be giving him a heads up so I didn't want to do that...that's why I didn't ask even though I was very curious and tempted!!

Hello again, Smiling:

A heads up about what?? That you DISAGREE with the stop? That you're going to fight it in court? Sorry to inform you, but he KNOWS that. Look. I see that you have a strategy in mind, and THAT'S the strategy you're going to pursue...

I figured I owed it to you give you a heads up that your strategy is BONKERS.

excon

PS> (edited) Look. I don't disagree with your reluctance to SPEAK with the cop. I understand HOW the cops do things. I know EXACTLY what to say, or NOT say to a cop when I'm stopped. I agree with you, that it's EXTREMELY important to be on guard when speaking to the cops.

Having said that, you can't win if haven't a clue why he stopped you... It just ain't going to happen. I can't imagine why you think it would...

SmilingInside · May 27, 2011, 11:51 AM

OK, duly noted. But don't youthink they (cops) assume you're not going to fight it? OK, and even so... if I plead guilty, then I'm automatically guilty without a trial, no contest. If I at least TRY, I can't do any WORSE, can I?? WHy is TRYING to plead not guilty bad? If I can't come out any worse than outright pleading guilty, why not try? I don't get it. Plus it might make that cop think twice before he pulled me or anyone else over without a damn good reason.

smoothy · May 27, 2011, 11:54 AM

Originally Posted by SmilingInside;

I think your tips are sound. Say I can't financially bring the car up to inspection-what if I should dispose of or sell the car? Is that just as good?

Honestly... I don't know how they would view that. I've never witnessed that scenario over the years that I can remember. I have seen many dismissed by showing it was brought into compliance before the court date however. I would imagine it's not as good as showing compliance however. But its better than not doing anything I would assume. It does sort of throw out any assumption it was simply overlooked and makes it look like you knew it wouldn't pass. But that's a minor charge and fine compared to the other... the big one is the one that caused you to lose your driving privledges. If you can resolve that one before court... your standing would be much improved over what it is now.

SmilingInside · May 27, 2011, 11:58 AM

Let me add... I've been in court for a few traffic offenses (minor, maybe 3 in all of my 15 driving years. Every time, I plead NOT guilty and got a lesser fine and conviction than if I had just signed the ticket and not bothered. Every other time I was pulled over, I had made a (basic) statement of guilt to the officer when he asked the famous question... since then I had been informed by a lawyer friend to NEVER talk to cops even in a simple traffic stop, and I heeded his advice. So the officer, I am CERTAIN, does NOT have me admitting to ANY guilt, and very well may not have any reason to have puled me over, so I am having trouble understanding why it is harmful to me to plead not guilty? I mean, I can't possibly come out any WORSE... but I COULD come out better... even if I lose miserably, I still tried and didn't come out any worse off.

SmilingInside · May 27, 2011, 11:59 AM

Agreed and I will address that charge first!

excon · May 27, 2011, 11:59 AM

Originally Posted by SmilingInside

But don't youthink they (cops) assume you're not going to fight it?? why not try?? Plus it might make that cop think twice before he pulled me or anyone else over without a damn good reason.

Hello again, Smiling:

I added some stuff while you were writing..

No, cops think EVERYBODY will fight it... That's why they interact with people with the same level of care that YOU undertook. What?? You think they're sloppy, and you're the only one whose alert? Dude!

Your second question is different.. I absolutely agree with the strategy of fighting the ticket. I also agree that you stand a good chance of getting a better deal in court. But, you're NOT going to teach the cop a lesson. That's arrogance on your part.

Plus, you might NOT get a better deal in court if you PISS off the judge, and I have NO idea what your strategy calls for you to say...

excon

SmilingInside · May 27, 2011, 12:09 PM

:) I see what you are saying... I just think that maybe in a minor traffic stop they may be more careless, or may not expect it to be fought. I'd bet they have a much higher rate of non-fight than fight when it comes to minor traffic stuff. I can only hope he was a bit careless. And I can only hope he makes up some lie about why he pulled me over. Eh, I just hate cops, so maybe I seem arrogant about it but hey, you can't win if you don't try...

excon · May 27, 2011, 12:32 PM

Originally Posted by SmilingInside

I just hate cops, so maybe I seem arrogant about it but hey, you can't win if you don't try...

Hello again, S:

You're preaching to the choir. Arrogance doesn't win, though. KNOWING the law, and what to DO does. You ARE right. They ARE careless, and CAN be caught. Most people, like you say, have NO IDEA what to say, or what NOT to say when stopped. But, you have to ARM yourself with something... What the probable cause WAS for the stop is exceedingly important information for you... Because if you know what the probable cause was, you understand the LIMITS of his inquiry...

The proper answer for ANY driver, when queried by the cops at a stop, is "am I free to go, Officer?". In your case, since he wasn't forthcoming, I would have asked him WHY he stopped you, and then I would have said NOTHING more, except, "am I free to leave, Officer?"

But, if you don't know what he stopped you for, you can't argue against it. Yes, he MIGHT lie in court, but you have NO defense for it if he does.

excon

ScottGem · May 27, 2011, 12:34 PM

Let's say he does lie about why he pulled you over? How are you going to prove he lied?