[unsureky]

My wife of over a year and a half continues to lie about her communication with an ex-boyfriend. It started while we were dating or perhaps it never ended... he was who she dated up to a month or more, as I understood, before we began dating. She says it ended on good terms and that she ended it because she knew that it was not going anywhere - she had her fun and that was all to it. They often went away on weekends and I know little more. It lasted a few months or up to six months. Anyway, as our relationship began to get serious I told her that the messages coming in while I was with were bothering me. I told her how I felt about her and would like to consider our relationship more serious (I was already thinking that I wanted to marry her) she ultimately said that she understood. Not long thereafter her phone was making noises due to the text messages coming in one night. She said she was sorry. Shortly thereafter we went out one night and she just came out and told me that she had put an end to it. Not long thereafter I took her to my company christmas party and the next morning, she got another one. Once again, she said she would stop. About two weeks later, on new years eve, while together, she had got another. I was with her again not long after that, and checked her phone while she was in the other room and saw his name on a message... I decided to ask her if she was still doing it and she said no, smiled at me and wanted to kiss me - I told her that I knew she was lying and how - she looked at the phone and saw it, had nothing to say, and I told her that I just couldn't trust her and did not want to get hurt. Various things transpired afterwards and to make a long story short, we ended up getting married four months later. Shortly after we got married, we were in bed, she was asleep with the phone next to the bed, and it went off again. I looked and saw it was him - the message indicating that they had talked not long before, so I calmly called him from her phone. He of course answered and I introduced myself as her husband, that she was asleep and asked if there was a reason I needed to put her on the phone. He said no, he was sorry, didn't know that she was married, to delete his numbers, he would delete hers and there would be no more. In the past year and a half at different times I suspected something only to learn that a couple of months ago they had talked. My wife admitted that she helped a friend with some legal concerns that was told by him to call her. Her ex-boyfriend then called her to say thank you, he had learned somehow that we had a child and said congrats and that was it. Later I thought back to the month before when I asked about an unusually high amount of text messages, but did not say anything because she swore to me that was all and that was the truth. A week or so passed and she said that she had never talked to him, that he had text her. This according to her happened one time, one day but it was over 50 messages. Then, after another week she justified things by saying that she never text him, he only text her "from time to time." she is very ambiguous about this whole thing. She also gets very mad at me, hostile, bitter, resentful... things along these lines about the whole thing. There are other concerns I have about other things but this leaves me very unsettled about our marriage. I am having a very difficult time with how to deal with this. Anyone have any input or suggestions?

[bglover]

I'm no marriage counselor but my gut goes to a direct route. My counselor is that your wife you and the ex boyfriend sit down with a professional marriage counselor and get this out in the open. It may be that she just needs to make a decision t be able to move on with or without you. You have to be ready for her decision. She is not a possession but like all of us a collection of experiences, wants, needs and patterns. My father always told me that people do not change without a dramatize or dramatic event. They tend to stay in a pattern and will return to that pattern until something, getting fired, an illness and confrontation snaps them in a new vision of themselves.

Not sure if that helps but that is my experience.

[RubyPitbull]

Dear Unsureky. I am very sorry for the emotional rollercoaster you seem to have found yourself on. I partly agree with bglover but I don't think having a three-way sit down with a counselor is a good idea. I think you need to find a marriage counselor for yourself first. Voice your concerns with this person. If he/she feels the need to bring your wife or her ex into the discussion, then he/she will tell you that is the approach to take at the appropriate time. If you do not go to a professional, you will find this will keep eating away at you, the anger between you and your wife will boil over, and your marriage will end badly. If you want to save your marriage, this is the first positive step towards that goal. Let your conselor guide you through this. I hope this helps. All the best,.

[unsureky]

I appreciate both of your responses very much... I can not imagine going with this man to a counselor even though he told me that time right after we got married that he would stop contacting her. I feel that she is responsible to either end it with him or me. There are other concerns I have about my marriage and we have been to counseling. I have gone for my own personal goals which went great and it became obvious to even me that she needed to go. She finally did but then when we went together it almost never turned out too good - she would distort things that happened, get angry and not be open to anything that I had to share and little that even the counselor had to share. Anyway, I am afraid that she will just say that she will end it with him but it won't really be the case. This has already happened more than once. I don't, I mean really don't think that I could take any more betrayal, lies or deceit. In addition, when I have talked to her about this I can tell she thinks this is trivial because as she says "it's not like i am having sex with him" and I don't believe this type of attitude means she understands the pain I am in. I guess in my mind I believe that I should end it with her and she can go and do what she wants, but in my heart, I am struggling with what to do. I have been a person that follows his heart but these past two years it keeps getting trampled.

[valinors_sorrow]

I agree with Ruby and would leave the ex boyfriend out as this is really just between the two of you.

Please forgive me but its hard to tell from your post if there isn't an element of you being overly controlling in this that may be fuelling it (I don't know you and so therefore that seems possible)... and for that reason I want to ask a few questions.

Does your wife know how you feel about her continued contact with the ex? And if she does know then what does she say about ignoring your feelings as she has? Is she taking it seriously? Or is she accusing you of overeacting?

Its generally been my observation that people who love us usually want us to feel good and when their actions make us feel bad, they are usually genuinely concerned and willing to take actions to correct what it is. How is this so absent on her part? You allude to other things in the relationship and so I am left wondering if there is more to this story. Also I have to say for me, the lie would be a big red flag and yet you married her anyway... so perhaps you can see how confusing some of this sounded to me, I hope?

PS, I didn't see your Post #4 when I posted this. Now that I have, it sounds like you married someone who is not ready for marriage and doesn't know what love is. If she can't work it out with you, then you would be wise to end it. I am so sorry.

[RubyPitbull]

If you felt that counselor was good, and the situation became worse, then you might go back to the counselor on your own or explore the possibility that you need someone new. You need to have someone teach/give you the tools to deal with your wife and properly explain to her why this is hurting you so much. If she still refuses to accept that it has less to do with sex than it does with trust, and it continues to become a major wedge in your marriage, then you should go to the counselor to see whether you want to stay in such a marriage. They will help you through the process of thinking this through.

I am so sorry you are in such pain right now.

[unsureky]

I can understand the "controlling" question and I have considered that myself. In this case I just don't think that (1) there is an excuse to have even periodic text messaging with an ex that there is no other connection with like kids or such and (2) that there is an excuse to lie, or continue to lie and deceive your spouse. She spent years living like this with her ex-husband which makes me wonder why she can't understand how I feel - I guess in comparison to her past life maybe it is trivial, but regardless... it is not trivial to me. To answer the question about if she knows how I feel, yes, she does. What does she say - she's sorry and she can't explain it, and she doesn't know why - basically this or variations of this while at the same time very hostile, bitter and resentful towards me. So I don't think that she takes it very serious and in my opinion, it seems that she hasn't ever taken me or our marriage serious. There are other "issues" and this is and has been a dysfunctional relationship to say the least - I am aware. I guess that I just kept going forward and kept trying because I hoped and maybe believed that it would get better and we would work out. That's why with this lying stuff still going on I feel like nothing has really ever changed from when we were first dating... maybe I just have and the time between then and now I was in some sort of fog. What was said about loving people caring for one another, being geniunely concerned - I have yet to understand why this is so absent in her. Those red flags... I did see them and I don't understand why I ignored them then because I wouldn't be where I am now! I have a beautiful little one as a result which seems to be the last reason why I question what to do now... I can look back and should have known better, I can see now what I do, I realize that it certainly doesn't look like it is going to be any different or get any better, but now what? What do I do now?

[RubyPitbull]

If you recognize that this is a dysfuncional relationship and you truly feel you have done everything that you can, and your wife is ignoring your requests and continuing to lie, then you have to sit down and ask yourself, "Do I want to stay in this marriage the way it is or do I leave?" Only you can answer that. Once you answer that question, then you need to start planning on how you are going to make that solution work best for you and your little one.

[unsureky]

Well for anyone still reading, we have had a couple of conversations in the past days and then this evening. She says that there has been nothing more than just talking from time to time. She sees nothing wrong with it. But when I ask her if over 50 text messages in one day is appropriate, she eventually said no. she said that she gets mad at me for asking because she doesn't remember what they talked about... she said he just asks about the kids, to which I said is one question - one text, then that is was each one individually (she has two of her own) so that is three or four maybe. I said what about the other 40 plus? She said that she doesn't remember... I asked her then if she thought that anybody else would think that this is appropriate... eventually she said no. she said that she would stop to which I said that she has said this other times and I thought it had then too. I asked her what is different now and she said she didn't know. Then she got mad again and said well your just never going to get past this are you? I told her that this has been going on for over two years, over a year and a half of it we have been married, it has never stopped, even though I begged for at least her honesty and understanding she still continued and lied... what was different now? She said well what was she "supposed to do next time, tell him yes although i am an adult, i am not supposed to talk to you." I explained that I just didn't feel that she was anymore sincere than the past with her bitterness and contempt still present... she asked me so your not going to even try? I explained that she is trying to make it seem like all of a sudden I am not going to try but I HAVE been trying for two years and nothing is different now than then... I told her that I think that I am all "tried out."

Am I wrong here? Does anyone have any input? I just feel like her bitterness towards me is not going away. In other ways it seems that she is trying to make me out to be wrong as well and it just keeps hurting more and more. I am tired of being hurt. I told her that I have a clear conscience that in the over two years that I have known her I have never put another women before her... she doesn't seem to understand this. I feel betrayed and this is not the only instance. She often puts me aside or my feelings aside without consideration and often disregards me and disrespects me and I am not sure why, but now I guess I am just drawing a line when it comes to another man... and the lies. She is a good liar and is a crafty person and I know that she could always hide things from me - she has said herself that she has no conscience. She said before that she has lied for as long as she can remember because it has just been easier. Why would I think and/or how would I know that things are all of a sudden going to change? If it weren't for my little girl with her I would have no reservations leaving... but I feel that I still should. Again, am I wrong here?

[chippers]

If it was me, I'd sit down with your wife. Tel her how you feel and that all this texting is hurting not only you but your marriage. That if she still wants to say married to you, you both of you need marriage counselling.
I think the ex might be having a little fun at your expense. How many times does he text her as compared to her texting him. Who texts who first. If he texts her first, and she's returning it, she's inadvertently encouraging him. If he text her and she didn't return it or deleted it he might get the messege.
There are many easons why people lie. To protect themselves or someone else. She sees how upset you get when you notice the texts and how you react to them.
But what ever the reason is, you should sit down with a therapist. You have a llot invested in your marriage including a child.
As the others stated, the texting might be a control issue with the ex boyfriend or even him boarderline stalking by phone.

[RubyPitbull]

Well, unsureky, it sounds like you have really put your foot down this time and she is sitting up and taking notice! Good for you. Hold your ground. Do not allow this to slip back into both of your old patterns or you will find yourself in the same boat as you were when you first wrote in. It sounds like your end of the discussion was rational and not at all unreasonable.

Even though you have said above that she is a liar, she says she can't help herself,. It is very difficult for an outsider, as we all are here, to be completely objective without hearing her side of the story. BUT, there is something you stated above that completely had my red flag going up. "- she has said herself that she has no conscience." I would RUN, not walk, back to your counselor and discuss your intentions since you have seemed to have already made up your mind as to how you want to proceed. The reason I say this is, if she really did say that to you and, from her actions that you describe, seems to be standing by those words, she has absolutely no respect for you or your marriage. She wants what she wants and does not care that she is hurting you. If she tells you now, after your discussion, that she is going to change and wants to change, as you pointed out above, just keep in mind what you have told us -- that she has made promises before and just keeps up the pretense. Without her going for help on this, it won't change. People cannot break destructive habits themselves without outside help. You should not be putting yourself out there emotionally any more OR your child. The statement that she made to you above is an extremely unhealthy way for an adult to describe themselves AND, until she truly recognizes the damage she is doing to you AND, accepts that she needs help AND, actually goes for that help, she will continue on her destructive path. For your own sake and your child's sake, you need to step off that path. Go back to your counselor and tell him of the decision you have made, the discussion you have had with your wife, and ask how do you proceed from here.
I hope this helps.

[yoursonlymine]

You last post tells me you should end it. If your only staying with her because of your daughter that is not a good reason to be in a relation ship together not nowadays.im thinking you got some money right? Maybe she is just using you ever thought of that? Mabe she wants YOU to WANT a divource so she can get half? And she is just waiting for it to end so she can be with the other guy.all I cn say when you go to court make sure you can prove that she cheated on you that the marrige is not working cause she broke her vowes sorry man I'm just a person that see's things like this

[valinors_sorrow]

I am rather regretful to say this but by your own description of her you have either married a sociopath or someone so immature and self absorbed as to not be a candidate for any relationship, let alone something as adult as marriage. She'll require a lot of help to correct this and as long as she is unwilling to seek that help, you're down to take her as is or leave as your choices.

I had a fast failure marriage at the age of twenty one that lasted one year to the day with someone a lot like your wife. I was really embarrassed to have been so taken in by him that I vowed to learn all I needed to avoid that occurring again. Later when I married again it's a happy as they come this time. You deserve that. But it may take some work on your part. What planet were you on when you decided to marry her would be a good place to start once you're clear of this.

[talaniman]

There is no room in a healthy relationship for deceit or lying. Even though to be honest you only give us your version of events, and I can tell a few things have been left out by you for instance hard to believe you are so perfect, that she could be so wrong. Either way it seems as counseling is not working, so take a break to clear your head and get away from the pressure as you see it. Go fishing for a few days or something to change your surroundings because clearly an action must be taken since neither of you seems willing to budge from your current positions.

[misslady111]

Remember that she was this way when you met her and you decided to marry her anyway. You knew about this guy and maybe you expected her to change once you got married. It doesn't work that way. I think that you should trust that they are just friends until you find out something different that is concrete. You made the decision to marry her and she must love you if she married you. She probably feels like you are trying to control her. Trust her and let her know that if they are just friends that's fine. There should be some lines drawn like how often and not late at night with the texts. I know its hard but "if it don't fit you must aquit" I think I spelled tat right! If youlove her don't leave. If she is otherwise a good wife I think this is minor. Stop causing yourself so much stress and just love her and let her know you trusts her. God Bless!

[Deadman5192]

Sorry dude my wife did the same things and the hostility and bitterness is a clear sign of a cheater. She will say things like " I can't beleive you dont trust me" and "if it were you getting the texts I would trust you" she tries to flip in on you making you the bad guy don't let her just tell her " look I know whats going on but I want to hear it from you then maybe we can get over this and move on and I can forgive you" you don't need to mean it just get the truth out